Shox-Box "vs." Slides

[Cayenne]

Can anyone speak from experience about the pros & cons of Shox Box (front and rear, front only, rear only,) with and without slides? More specifically, how would Shox-Box, front and rear compare with slides, from a long term back health perspective? TIA

[Cayenne]

bump

[cas_sj]

Well, for what it's worth I can speak to rowing with the rear shox-box only, after having put almost 800K meters on mine at home and comparing it to rowing the same model D (without shox-box) on occasion at the gym....

The rear box raises the rail slightly, increasing the forward pitch a bit. Small change but certainly noticeable, and I think makes attaining a forward body angle during forward slide and as you approach the catch much easier.

And I do feel less strain on the lower back - whether from the change in the rail angle or the cushion in the rear (again - cushioning very noticeable to me). As someone who suffered from lower back issues for years, this was my purpose in adding the rear shox-box, and I think it's been a success. I've never had any back issues/discomfort from rowing at all. Of course proper form should address those issues anyway and the shox-box in no way compensates for poor form. All things said though, I much prefer rowing on my machine with the rear box.

Now some day I hope to add the slides - I think that would be a great addition, but not sure I need or would appreciate the front box. My issue was protecting my lower back, so not sure the front box would add much to that.... And whether good or bad, I'd lose that slight forward pitch in the rail that I've come to like.

Hope you get some other responses - particularly from people who have added shox-boxes to their slides....

[rowbike]

I have both the front and rear shox box's for my model D. I have never used slides. I would definitely recommend the rear shox box, but have mixed feelings about the front box.

I bought the rear over slides to help alleviate lower back soreness, and it has worked real well. However, I also found that the rower now sloped forward enough to change the rowing dynamic. At that time I thought about using something to raise the front of the rower and level out, but decided that maybe the shox box worked better as a whole set and ordered the front unit.

Using the front and rear shox box together eliminates the forward sloping issue, and adds another dimension to rowing like the Shox Box website claims. However, while the back unit seems perfectly balanced, the front unit causes the rower to lean to the left whenever a person sits on the it or rows. When no one is on the rower, it is perfectly level, but the added weight of a person, and especially the added force of rowing, overwhelms the front Shox Box springs and causes it to lean left.

The front shox box does not have its springs installed to support evenly side to side like the rear unit. The front unit has the springs further to the right, like they were all installed an inch or so further right from center, so that there is more support for that side. It seems to be designed this way since the flywheel is on the right side of the C2, and the springs seem to be balanced for when the C2 alone is on the shox box's, but not for the additional body weight of a person.

Using a line level on the rail, I find that I have to lean about 15 degrees to the right to keep the rower level when using the front and rear shox boxes together, and that the the C2 always dips left on the return stroke. A few times it has bottomed out in the shox box, but only the at the left front. I realize the shox box is designed to provide variability similar to being on the water, but this isn't variable in my opinion. It always follows the same left favored pattern.

Otherwise, the front unit does what it is supposed to do, and both are well built, aside from what seems to be a single design flaw. I now tend to use the rear shox box unit alone with the front raised by putting a board under the feet, and sometimes use it alone with the forward slope. The rear unit is well worth the price.

[gregsmith01748]

Have you talked to Dave Baker (at ShoxBox) about this. I don't this was his intent. Used a set briefly at the HOCR and I didn't notice any lean when I was rowing.

[rowbike]

No, I haven't contacted shox box about it. I may do that, but really haven't had much time to think about it lately. This may be part of the design since the springs are clearly set to provide more support to the right side, and others may not notice it.

[gregsmith01748]

I just looked on the shoxbox website and they have instructions for moving the front springs. It looks like these might need to change location based on rower weight.

[rowbike]

Yes, I've looked at those instructions as well. However, my springs are already in position #1 which is supposed to provide the less challenging movement.

[rowbike]

Shox Box is apparently going out of business. I'm surprised there seems to be no mention of it here on the C2 forum, or perhaps maybe that lack of interest is why they are going out of business.

[Cayenne]

Hello RowBike - I just looked at the ShoxBox site...I saw no mention that they are folding. Where did you get the info? (I'm not doubting you, just curious.) Thanks.

[rowbike]

Its not on their website, they sent an email to past customers. I got one in early October and another today, which I pasted below:

We regret to inform you that we have decided to discontinue Shox-Box manufacturing operations and close our Blackstone Automation business. We are currently manufacturing our last Shox-Box builds. Once this inventory is gone, no more will be produced. Our last day of business will be December 12, 2014. After this date, Blackstone Automation will no longer be offering Shox-Box products, parts, or accessories.

The decision to close down this business was not an easy one. While we did build a loyal and highly satisfied customer base as well as obtain a US patent, we did not achieve the world-wide sales distribution network growth we had projected.

We would like to thank all of our customers that we have done business with over the last five years. Shox-Box would not have been around as long as it was without your loyalty.

We would like to offer you the opportunity to purchase both the rear and front Shox-Boxes for 20% off the retail price*. Additionally, if you purchase both a rear and a front Shox-Box together, the shipping is FREE (US and Canada destinations only). These offers are good until Friday, December 12, 2014. Please visit our website http://www.shoxbox.biz to place your order. Inventory is limited so act fast before it is gone.

Please contact us with any questions or comments. Our commitment to providing you the best products and support is still our top priority.

Sincerely,

Dave Baker
President, Blackstone Automation

-AND-

Laurie Smith
COO, Blackstone Automation

[raotor]

The closing of the Shox-Box business is a real shame. I had vaguely heard mention of Shox-Box on a couple of occasions but had not researched what it actually was until reading this thread. Ironically, having read the product description I can see that the rear Shox-Box would certainly help with the lower back ache I always get as a result of using my Model D.

However, as so often happens, a good idea fails simply because of lack of marketing and publicity. I have only been erging for some 14 months but have now only become aware of this product here in the UK and find that the business is folding in December due to lack of sales. I feel sure that sales would've been significantly better had better publicity been undertaken - not just within the enthusiast rowing community that may well have been aware of it but to the wider, less savvy users like myself.

Also, the lack of an overseas distributor (to my knowledge) means that those of us in Europe and here in the UK (no small market) end up being priced out of the option to buy because of various import duties and taxes etc. I would strongly consider purchasing at least a rear Shox-Box of my own but the delivery costs combined with the above duties make it a far less attractive offer unfortunately.

It's a shame that Concept 2 don't take on this venture and therefore via their overseas distributor network make the Shox-Box system much more accessible to foreign customers.

[jackarabit]

Thanx for the headsup, rowbike. I got the rear box. Afraid if I bought both, I'd need sponsons. Truthfully I haven't had lumbar problems in 950K as a novice erger. Last chance to lengthen the odds on that. Jack

[jackarabit]

Rear box arrived today. Pulled a few strokes. Feels good at the finish; definitely a softtail now! Raises the extreme rear of beam 2.5". I don't know if i'll like that fwd cant to the beam. if not, I'll raise the front on a box or on 2by scrap. Additional elevation on both ends would be an advantage for my wife who has to deal with arthritis involving the kneecaps. I doubt if there is a pad type isolator or vibration damper which would give the degree of vertical compliance available from the spring suspension in the Shoxbox. Not cheap at 20% off the original. Understandable given the tiny niche market.
Jack

[jackarabit]

NIB rear box for models B,C and D on eBay currently. Bid was at 50$ and reasonable 13$ shipping yesterday. Jack