Concept2 Forum

I was looking at the cable specs at: http://www.concept2.com/service/softwar ... door-rowerand was wondering if this is just a standard sync cable (30pin to USB) as it appears. I"m considering on attaching an iPad for it's larger screen by using a mount such as the Joy Factory Unite Mount http://www.thejoyfactory.com/product/MNU106 and would likely need a longer cable. Thanks to someone that can verify.

The PM needs a USB "B" type connector and not the "A" type that is standard for iOS devices (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Types-usb_th1.svg for differences). That said, if you got an "A" to "B" converter I don't see why that wouldn't work.

I heard back from Concept2 and the cable length is 14 1/2" not including the connection ends, which should be plenty long enough. From the illustration their website it appears much shorter. Good suggestion on the A-B.

I've tried an A to B USB converter with my iPad cable and it doesn't work. I tried it on my iPhone as well. The PM4 indicates that no device is attached. The converter works with my printer so that should not be the problem.

Is there something unique about how the Concept 2 iPhone cable is made that a normal A to B conversion won't do?

@rowbike
Wow. I am shocked that the A to B converted doesn't work. I guess I'll have to dig out my multimeter and test the pin outs to see why that doesn't work. Thanks for testing!

I double checked the A to B connector with my ipad, confirmed the logcard was removed from the PM4, and still it doesn't work. I then tried using the A to B connector with a normal USB cable to connect between my computer and the PM. I was able to read and transfer log card data and check the firmware version no problem. So the A to B connector definitely works, just not with the ipad/iphone apps. That $35 cable must have a unique design.

rowbike wrote:I double checked the A to B connector with my ipad, confirmed the logcard was removed from the PM4, and still it doesn't work. I then tried using the A to B connector with a normal USB cable to connect between my computer and the PM. I was able to read and transfer log card data and check the firmware version no problem. So the A to B connector definitely works, just not with the ipad/iphone apps. That $35 cable must have a unique design.

USB is a 4-wire (0v, 5v, data+, data-) serial protocol. So therefore one end is data terminal equipment (DTE) the other is data comms equipment (DCE). The USB hardware design is USB-A for DCE, USB-B (or the various shapes of mini USB-B) for DTE. There's no interchangeability between DCE and DTE.

When your i[Pod|Pad|Phone] is hooked up to a laptop it's acting as DTE, The laptop is the DCE. The signals on the cable will reflect that configuration.
When you're running ErgData, then the PM3/PM4 is DTE, the i[Pad|Pod|Phone] is acting as DCE. The signals on the cable will be dramatically different.

Citroen wrote:

rowbike wrote:I double checked the A to B connector with my ipad, confirmed the logcard was removed from the PM4, and still it doesn't work. I then tried using the A to B connector with a normal USB cable to connect between my computer and the PM. I was able to read and transfer log card data and check the firmware version no problem. So the A to B connector definitely works, just not with the ipad/iphone apps. That $35 cable must have a unique design.

USB is a 4-wire (0v, 5v, data+, data-) serial protocol. So therefore one end is data terminal equipment (DTE) the other is data comms equipment (DCE). The USB hardware design is USB-A for DCE, USB-B (or the various shapes of mini USB-B) for DTE. There's no interchangeability between DCE and DTE.

When your i[Pod|Pad|Phone] is hooked up to a laptop it's acting as DTE, The laptop is the DCE. The signals on the cable will reflect that configuration.
When you're running ErgData, then the PM3/PM4 is DTE, the i[Pad|Pod|Phone] is acting as DCE. The signals on the cable will be dramatically different.

So there is basically an extra crossover between the DTE and DCE occuring with the A to B connector that doesn't need to be in the connection? Or are different pins in the Apple 30 pin connector are being used in the C2 ipod cable?

rowbike wrote: So there is basically an extra crossover between the DTE and DCE occuring with the A to B connector that doesn't need to be in the connection? Or are different pins in the Apple 30 pin connector are being used in the C2 ipod cable?

USB is a four wire interface. I've no idea how the i[Pod|Pad|Phone] maps it's multi-contact edge connector to those four USB wires. (To be honest I'm not at all interested in finding out since I'll never have one of those overblown, overpriced, underspecified items to play with.)

Citroen wrote:

rowbike wrote: So there is basically an extra crossover between the DTE and DCE occuring with the A to B connector that doesn't need to be in the connection? Or are different pins in the Apple 30 pin connector are being used in the C2 ipod cable?

USB is a four wire interface. I've no idea how the i[Pod|Pad|Phone] maps it's multi-contact edge connector to those four USB wires. (To be honest I'm not at all interested in finding out since I'll never have one of those overblown, overpriced, underspecified items to play with.)

Right, USB is four wire, but the iphone/ipad end is 30 pin, at least for the older type. The ipod cable has a USB end on it already, so perhaps there is some other mapping due to the DCE/DTE issue.

I'm able to do more useful things on my iphone than my windows computer, and I paid less for my iphone new than the $35 C2 charges for their iphone cable. For me it has been one of the best electronics purchases I"ve ever made.

I tried to be clever myself and bought the A to B adapter but no, it's not that simple. After going through some digging I figured that there must be something in the iconnectconcept2 cable's iphone connector, because it's much larger than an ordinary 30-pin connector and I read on the concept2 troubleshooting page that when you connect the cable to your idevice the text below ErgData's screen changes from "connect cable" to "connect PM3 or PM4. So this must mean that in the 30-pin connector is a connection that tells the idevice if the correct cable is connected.
In the idevice there's pin 21 that is used to tell the device that an accessory is connected and different resistors correspond to different accessorys. For example a 500K ohm resistor is used to enable serial communication but I have had no luck with it so far. It might be some other pin or a different resistor used.

Apple restricts what can be plugged into the port that exchanges any DATA of any kind. Simply put, you cannot just use a cable. Due to agreements with Apple, I cannot discuss this more than that, but suffice to say "it's more than a cable, there is electronics inside" and you could probably use Google to find out more about Apple's restrictions and what it takes to connect.

Now more and more Android devices have a USB Host interface, this now comes down to a simple cable and software. We're on it... if you're interested in Android development please write to me.

c2scott wrote:
Now more and more Android devices have a USB Host interface, this now comes down to a simple cable and software. We're on it... if you're interested in Android development please write to me.

Yes to an android app!

Any chance of getting a longer Apple cable? And since I am asking, any chance of getting a cable that you can plug a charger into (like their HDMI cable). The APP kills my battery.

c2scott wrote:
Now more and more Android devices have a USB Host interface, this now comes down to a simple cable and software. We're on it... if you're interested in Android development please write to me.

Would love an Android version of this app.

Additionally If the app could sync with the likes of MyFitnessPal that would form part of a fantastic all-round solution for tracking diet, exercise etc.

If your eventually looking for testers for an Android version of the app would be a willing guinea pig.