Concept2 Forum

I'm looking for a model D rower and found this listing for $495, but the seller didn't put the model number. So I emailed them and got this reply:
"It is a classic model that is preferred by many rowers for its smooth and solid feel because it is made of all metal parts, unlike the new ones that have so much plastic. Also, because it has a solid cast metal flywheel, unlike the new ones that just have a cheap stamped steel fan. And it has a wider range of resistance adjustability because it has in addition to the wind damper, an extra sprocket for a higher gear range, unlike the new ones that do not have the second sprocket. The classic model is the b model.
Its in great condition with little use."
So is this a good deal?

No

Ok is all that stuff he said true? Does a model B have a greater range than a D?

shotparrot wrote:Ok is all that stuff he said true? Does a model B have a greater range than a D?

Whether or not it has a greater range is not an important consideration. One major problem with a B is that none of the available damper and gear settings give you a drag factor less than 140-150. Most users of later models work out most of the time with drag factor of less than 140, many of us at much less than 140. It is possible to lower the drag factor of a B by adding shielding around that open cage.

Another big problem with a B is that it originally came with very limited monitor, the PM. That early PM did not even have the capability of showing the drag factor. I used a B for about 12 years with the old PM and then I switched to a PM3. It was only then that I even learned that there was such as thing as drag factor. If you get a B with the PM(1), it would be worthwhile to upgrade to a more recent monitor. You can check the C2 website to find out the details and prices of the various monitors which are now up to PM4.

The B is a very solidly built machine, but it is more subject to rusting than the newer models. It also has an open cage which makes it a hazard if there are young children about. The cage screens on the later models serve stop little fingers from getting hurt by the flywheel.

Bob S.

I use a Model B at home. I use a Model D at the Y. The differences are huge. For building muscle, the Model B is the better rower IMO; I like the Model D which is smoother and as mentioned the drag factor is much lower than the lowest on the B.

Ok thanks. Didn't know the drag factor was so high on the B. The seller also has a pm4 he's willing to sell me for extra. I'm assuming the way he's going he'll ask full price (310) bringing the total to $805 lol.

shotparrot wrote:Ok thanks. Didn't know the drag factor was so high on the B. The seller also has a pm4 he's willing to sell me for extra. I'm assuming the way he's going he'll ask full price (310) bringing the total to $805 lol.

He's asking too much. The model B isn't worth much more than $200-250. If you got the model B AND the PM4 for $500 it would be worth it. But for $800 you're 90% fo the way to a very good model C/PM4, model D1/PM3 or model D2/PM3.

The Model Bs were produced between 1986 and 1993, so many of those you'll find for sale will be in pretty sorry condition, with rusted mounting bolts, flywheel cages, and chains, scarred and scraped monorails, disintegrating seats, and non-functioning PM1 monitors, useless bungee cords, and even noisy and badly aligned flywheel assemblies. There are a few Model B afficianados out there who prefer them to the later C2 erg models, but they represent a very small and shrinking group.

Now for the better news. Almost all of the damage mentioned above can be fixed with a reasonable investment in new parts from C2. The PM1 can be swapped for a PM2 or PM3. The old skewer assembly (shock cord and chain) can be swapped out for a new one. The small funky Model B seat can be exchanged for a Model C/D/E retrofit. Rusty bolts replaced, etc.

As for Model B's high drag factor, the installation of a speed ring around the damper can drop it to around 120.

Having used both B (at home upgraded with PM4) and D/E (at clubs), I find the D/E unusable for me. Although many comment that the B seat is too soft, I found it better for my use. Rowing times at anything greater than 30 minutes on the D/E seat left so sore that I needed at least a day off to recover. For me their "new" seat has been a draw back to upgrading to their dynamic.

russtanton wrote:Having used both B (at home upgraded with PM4) and D/E (at clubs), I find the D/E unusable for me. Although many comment that the B seat is too soft, I found it better for my use. Rowing times at anything greater than 30 minutes on the D/E seat left so sore that I needed at least a day off to recover. For me their "new" seat has been a draw back to upgrading to their dynamic.

The seat is the one thing I miss from my old model B, although the addition of a C2 pad to my D seat helped a lot. I also liked the old wooden handle of the B - not that it was better - it is probably just nostalgia, since I learned to row with wooden oar handles ever so many years ago.

Bob S.

JRBJR wrote:
As for Model B's high drag factor, the installation of a speed ring around the damper can drop it to around 120.

I was able to get mine well below 50 by putting a cardboard box around the cage. I didn't really use it that way; I was just experimenting around to see what could be done.

The key feature for drag factor on the B is upgrading to a later PM, since the PM(1) does not show the drag factor.

Bob S.

In terms of evolution there was big big jump from an A to a B but the biggest leap was from the B to the C. The D is really only a refinement of the C and with a new quiet sprocket, shaft and chain & PM3 monitor on the C, it's going to essentially be very similar to the D. Second hand Erg's are expensive over here but you would be hard pressed to even sell a Model B over here now.

I sold my model B four or five years ago for $180. It was in decent shape and I thought that was a fair price.
It is an excellent machine, but I prefer my D.

Steelhead wrote:For building muscle, the Model B is the better rower IMO; I like the Model D which is smoother and as mentioned the drag factor is much lower than the lowest on the B.

It is easy to adjust the drag factor range.

I usually rowed between a 65 and 110 drag factor, but sometimes removed the mesh from the center.

In this case the modelD drag factor would go up to 360.

I found no benefit to doing this, but it was an occasional change for variety.