New iPhone app Concept2 Indoor Rower: "ErgData"

[juan-john]

Any plans to update the ergData app (or develop a separate app) that allows one to update the firmware on the PM3/PM4 *DIRECTLY* from the iPhone?

Love ergData, BTW.

[bluewaterak]

Ah. Got my ergdata kit today. My PM3 monitor serial number starts with 2000... which means the app doesn't work with my monitor. I'm pretty sure the "known issues" segment wasn't there when I purchased. But then again maybe it was and I just missed it.

Is there a fix for this in the works

[c2scott]

Dear All:

If you need assistance, please feel free to write directly to rowing@concept2.com or myself directly (my email address should be shown in my picture on the side...

Dear Bluewaterak:

Please contact Concetp2's customer service to discuss (please ask for Will, Trevor, Josh, or Scott), we do have some options for you.

For what it's worth... I did a LOT of testing of ErgData and the iConnectConcept2 cable before putting it into production. This included both old and new PM3's, PM4's, various versions of current firmware, etc. However, apparently the older monitors in my testing lab just happened to work... it's just that some work, most don't. We discovered this issue just before Thanksgiving, identified the root cause of the problem on Monday, and a design change has been made for future production. Sorry for the inconvenience, we will make it right for you one way or the other.

Dear Juan-John:

This is something that has been discussed, but it is a large project. It's on the list of things to consider for a future release.

Regarding Just-Row workouts:

Just-row workouts are never logged (LogCard, memory, or otherwise) if they are less than 1 minute. Also, you need to press the Menu-Back button when you are done. This causes the monitor to log it to Memory. If you are still having difficulty with JustRow workouts, please email rowing@concept2.com or myself for more immediate help.

Using LogCards:

I believe that you CAN still use a LogCard... however the workout will be logged to the LogCard and NOT the ErgData App. Also, we have not extensively tested this use case, so I don't know if something strange might happen.... this is why we say not to use it with the LogCard.

Occasional crashes:

I know that some people have experienced an occasional crash of the App, mainly when hitting "Sync". There is an update that is about to be sent to the Apple store to hopefully resolve these issues. Apple put a few new requirements on App Updates that we are working to resolve, this has delayed us a few days. I would hope that the update will be available in the store by the end of the year.

[Gowyn]

Santa brought me BOTH the card reader and the iPod data cable with ergdata. When I made up my wish list I didn't realize that there was a cable that allowed me to use my iPhone but when my wife called in the order they told her about it (I wanted the iPod holder) so that saved me having to order and pay shipping again. Thanks C2.

Now it looks like the data that ergdata collects doesn't include split times etc, just the basic stuff that goes to the online log, is this correct?

So I plan to use the ergdata app and cable to have a better display in my low light room and save the workout on my log card. Then once a week upload the log card onto my computer worksheet and then to the online log. Anyone see any fault with this?

Looking forward to getting on the machine tomorrow but right now I'm going to indulge some more Christmas goodies....

Merry Christmas all

[OarConsequences]

@Gowyn
I figure you've probably already found this out by now but I'll go ahead and post anyway for others reading this thread.

The ErgData app is capable of storing split times. I don't know if that is due to how I set up my workout or if that's the default behavior. For example, I set up a 10x500m workout and it kept each of the split times as well as everything else available on the PM such as heart rate, watts, and cal/hr (by clicking in the header). However, I cannot find a way to transfer that split data off of the device. If you sync ErgData to a C2 account you can get composite data, but not the splits as far as I can tell. Hopefully future versions will allow for that. According to a previous post in this thread the data can be transferred to a logcard but if you need to use a logcard then that greatly diminishes the utility of the ErgData setup apart from some extra stats and a brighter display than the PM's LCD.

The most comprehensive single solution I've found so far is RowPro which allows you to have a backlit display, shows real time charting of speed and heart rate, stores stroke by stroke data, and can export data in a format suitable for use in spreadsheets. Sucks to have to haul around a laptop and power adapter instead of just plugging in a mobile device but that's what the current state is.

[Big Calm]

Are there any plans to fix the ErgData interval workout upload issue?

The FAQ has the following to say about the upload of interval workouts:

Interval workouts are uploaded as one piece with combined work and rest meters and combined work and rest time.

This means that all split times of work pieces is completely lost when uploading to the Concept2 log and relegates the online log to only being useful insofar as recording the total distance travelled which is pretty meaningless.

At the very least, one would hope that the log recorded the distance and average split time of the work pieces and did not include the rest intervals. A much better situation would be if the log recorded each individual work piece as a separate entry with a Comment that linked the log entries together such as "4 x 1000 / 5:00 Interval 1", "4 x 1000 / 5:00 Interval 2", and so on.

Also, during interval workouts the app asks you "Are you finished? Yes / No" between each work piece which can get a bit tedious.

[Citroen]

Interval workouts are uploaded as one piece with combined work and rest meters and combined work and rest time.

It's a long standing feature (aka nasty bug) with the log.concept2.com website. It's been there forever and C2 promised to fix it for users using the C2 Utility to upload their logcard data. That promise has been outstanding for many years (IIRC at least seven orbits of the sun).

It's nice to see they kept the feature in the new ErgData application to remain consistent and avoid any nasty surprises.

[Ergmeister]

Yes to Citroen. The fact that the logcard data is more extensive with fewer datapoints than ErgData is a disappointment, however, I use the ErgData app only to aid in stroke drive and length information and I always plug my logcard in so I get the detailed splits and information on the logcard CSV spreadsheet file (but obviously minus the ErgData additional points), but as pointed out above, that's all compressed as one event when it uploads to the logbook so that killer split on the 2 minute pieces is all but gone when the rest time splits are added in the logbook uploads. Hey, I love the new data points and hope that in time C2 will get these items to all upload to the logbook so we can see where we stand among our peers.

[Bob S.]

Hey, I love the new data points and hope that in time C2 will get these items to all upload to the logbook so we can see where we stand among our peers.

I don't give a crap where I stand "amongst my peers" on minutia like 2 minute pieces. The rankings of the 11 events available is more than enough to me. What I dislike intensely is the fact that there is an enormous amount of data available to the monitor that is not readily obtained by the user. In particular, I would dearly love to have continuous HR data and stroke by stroke information like drive time, drive force, and distance per stroke. The HR data (and pace data as well) is available from RowPro, but only in a shitty form, a graph that is not even linear, but has a logarithmic lime axis. Besides, I have had so damn many glitches with RP that I have given it up as a complete waste of good exercise time. The stroke by stroke information is available from ErgMonitor, but I have never gotten a response to my e-mails to their site and I have a strong hunch that EM would give me even more problems on my MacBook that I have had with RP. When I first saw the stuff about ErgData, I thought, "Oh great. It sounds like that might be a good candidate to use with my new 8" iPad." After reading the forum comments on ED I have the impression that it would not do a blasted thing for me. In addition to that, I have not seen anything about mounting the small iPad on a C2, only iPhones and such stuff. Choice of either logcard or ErgData?? Why can't one get both? Years ago there was a complaint about the logcard not working when a computer with ErgMonitor was connected but, but that seemed to have been solved by the use of an inexpensive splitter from RadioShack.

Bob S.

[wphunter]

I'm using the app all of the time and really like it. One question, I thought once the heart rate belt was remembered by the app it connected to it automatically, at least thats what I thought it was doing. But now I'm having to connect to the belt via the monitor for it to show in the app. Is there a problem with the app connecting to the belt, or is my memory going? Thanks, Wayne.

[OarConsequences]

@wphunter
The heart rate belt talks to the PM. The app can access the HR data from the PM but doesn't talk to the HR belt directly. I don't see how remembering the HR belt would work since there would be a problem if you were in the same room as someone else with one.

[Citroen]

I'm using the app all of the time and really like it. One question, I thought once the heart rate belt was remembered by the app it connected to it automatically, at least thats what I thought it was doing. But now I'm having to connect to the belt via the monitor for it to show in the app. Is there a problem with the app connecting to the belt, or is my memory going? Thanks, Wayne.

If you have an ANT/ANT+ HR belt (Garmin or Suunto) and a PM4 and a LogCard then the ANT serial number (last five digits) will be stored on your LogCard. That means it will always automatically pair with your PM4 when the LogCard is inserted.

Don't know anything about ErgData as I won't buy Apple's overpriced and under-specified hardware.

[OarConsequences]

@Citroen
Thanks for the info about the log card. I (obv) didn't know that it did that. Totally makes sense and I'm glad that it's implemented to save the serial number on the card.

[bofubm]

I too am a little dissatisfied with the ErgData app. It works for me every time, and I've never had problems with it. I can see a whole world of great features that I assume would be well-received, but hey!, maybe I'm solo on this one.

I'd love to see a visual representation of mine and a few other boats on screen (with data, of course) that are customizable boats: (The last few rows of the same type or just the pace from a different type, or a few of your friends' already logged and updated to a central community website that is the hub of the C2 indoor rowing ergdata rows.) Multiple pace boats, or other options similar.

A competitive system, ladders, races, time period goals, etc, etc. are possible with a community site like that. A little like the Nike+ site they have.

Data collection, graphs, challenges. Animated overhead views of races, visual ghost points representing people or paces.

I won't say I'm bored rowing. I love it. I'd like more interesting things to focus on during the row, and I see the app functionality to be the best solution.

Is there anyone who might take this on? Already are? Or maybe is there a legal issue that prevents it? A lack of electronic development?

My last point will be: Wouldn't the popularity of a system like this result in more rowers sold? Or at least since the cable and mount are so portable, might there be more revenue involved in the app sales, a subscription system to the community, or etc?

Are there licensing rules against doing this myself?

Happy rowing!

Glynn

[Stelph]

It would be nice if the app allowed it to show the Heart rate taken from a bluetooth HR belt like the Wahoo BlueHR

I currently use the NK app with the Bluetooth HR belt when I am out on the water and would love to also use the app when on the erg, but training to specific heart rates is very important and unfortunaly unless you have a PM4 you cannot get the HR in the ErgBuddy App