PM3 vs. PM4

icomefrombirmingham · Post by **icomefrombirmingham** » August 15th, 2007, 10:58 pm

I am close to ordering my very own C2. I think I will go with the Model D, but I am undecided about the monitor.
It seems sensible to get a monitor with as much upgrade potential as possible. However, I am wondering what exactly the "expansion potential" of the PM4 will be utilised for in the future...and how far into the future. Are there gaping holes in the capabilities of the PM3 that wil be solved by the PM4? Or am I really only getting the capacity to run the Suunto heart monitor? (The Suunto is part of the package wheras the Polar HR Monitor is an additional $65 for the PM3 I think).
Am I missing something that makes the extra cost worthwhile?
Brent

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » August 16th, 2007, 2:27 am

The PM3 is cheaper. What you save will pay for a copy of RowPro ($99).

The PM4 has two features you'll never use at home: 1. wireless racing, 2. wired venue racing (without needing an extension module).

The PM4 and PM3 will interface to a Polar heart rate monitor with a receiver dongle on a long cable. The PM4 will interface to a Suunto HRM wirelessly.

The PM4 also has a rechargeable battery or can run on D cells like a PM3.

C2 appear to have reached the point where they are focusing development of new features exclusively on the PM4.

If you go with PM3 you can always upgrade later to a PM4. There'll be a market for PM3s for folks upgrading model Cs from PM2.

icomefrombirmingham · Post by **icomefrombirmingham** » August 16th, 2007, 9:02 am

Citroen wrote:The PM3 is cheaper. What you save will pay for a copy of RowPro ($99).

The PM4 has two features you'll never use at home: 1. wireless racing, 2. wired venue racing (without needing an extension module).

The PM4 and PM3 will interface to a Polar heart rate monitor with a receiver dongle on a long cable. The PM4 will interface to a Suunto HRM wirelessly.

The PM4 also has a rechargeable battery or can run on D cells like a PM3.

C2 appear to have reached the point where they are focusing development of new features exclusively on the PM4.

If you go with PM3 you can always upgrade later to a PM4. There'll be a market for PM3s for folks upgrading model Cs from PM2.

Thanks for your help.
Three questions:
1) The Polar HRM was described to me by a woman at C2 as being a chest strap and a receiver module (which pligs in to the PM3?). But that there is no wire connecting the two while rowing. So the cable you mention is an antennae....is this correct.
2) From the PM3s I am using at the Y, I seem to get all the information I could ever need. But I am still very inexperienced. Can you envisage what sort of development/features that C2 might be thinking of for the PM4? If there are some great features that are in demand and in development but not available on the PM3, that might be a reason to go for the PM4.
3) What exactly is RowPro. I have seen it mention on here but don't know what it is.

Brent

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » August 16th, 2007, 9:25 am

Remember that Dougie comes from "the land of twice the price", just spring for the PM4 and you will be set.

Personally, the choice for me was whether to go for the Mod E or not, and considering the heavier build, PM4, Better paint, and better Chain, it was still a little deciding, but I had to get at least one to do software testing for ErgMonitor, so the first one was obvious. After receiving it and having it in use for a short period, we replaced the other Mod D also, not been disappointed with that at all. In the spirit of full disclosure, I never was all that fond of the D, but at the same time don't particularly care for the new Rail connection method, but we get that whether we like it or not.

Gerhard · Post by **Gerhard** » August 16th, 2007, 9:42 am

icomefrombirmingham wrote: What exactly is RowPro. I have seen it mention on here but don't know what it is.

Brent

Rowpro is a program by digital rowing (www.digitalrowing.com) that allows you to race / workout online on internet. It's very motivating. You can alos use it to row against your own previous rows (offline), and you can download 'rowfiles' from the concept2 rankings and row against them (offline).

I row online 2 times a week, and I download rows from the rankings just faster than my PB's and row against them (offline) until I beat them.

icomefrombirmingham · Post by **icomefrombirmingham** » August 16th, 2007, 12:53 pm

PaulS wrote:Remember that Dougie comes from "the land of twice the price", just spring for the PM4 and you will be set.

Personally, the choice for me was whether to go for the Mod E or not, and considering the heavier build, PM4, Better paint, and better Chain, it was still a little deciding, but I had to get at least one to do software testing for ErgMonitor, so the first one was obvious. After receiving it and having it in use for a short period, we replaced the other Mod D also, not been disappointed with that at all. In the spirit of full disclosure, I never was all that fond of the D, but at the same time don't particularly care for the new Rail connection method, but we get that whether we like it or not.

Paul,
I think you might be right on the monitor. For the US$150 difference, why not just get the latest and have the expansion capacity for if it I ever need it?
On the decision between D and E. I am used to D. Is there any difference in feel or noise from the D to the E? The rowing motion must be exactly the same mustn't it? I realise that the E is higher off the ground...but I think even on the D I will be able to see over the back of the sofa to the TV?
At my current rate I will be a 1.6 million metres per year rower. That may increase with the convenience of a machine at home. But even at 2 or 3 million metres a year I can't see me wearing out a model D......30 years...90 million metres....90,000 km. The machines at the Y probably suffer more abuse than I will ever give to my machine and I would think they would easily last 90,ooo km?
Regards,
Brent

icomefrombirmingham · Post by **icomefrombirmingham** » August 16th, 2007, 12:59 pm

Gerhard wrote:
icomefrombirmingham wrote: What exactly is RowPro. I have seen it mention on here but don't know what it is.

Brent
Rowpro is a program by digital rowing (www.digitalrowing.com) that allows you to race / workout online on internet. It's very motivating. You can alos use it to row against your own previous rows (offline), and you can download 'rowfiles' from the concept2 rankings and row against them (offline).

I row online 2 times a week, and I download rows from the rankings just faster than my PB's and row against them (offline) until I beat them.

Gerhard,
You competitive little devil

I shall have a look at the RowPro site. Using other people's PBs who are close to yours is a great idea.
Perhaps (in about 40 lbs time) I will be using your PBs to improve my own times!?
Brent

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » August 16th, 2007, 2:29 pm

icomefrombirmingham wrote:
PaulS wrote:Remember that Dougie comes from "the land of twice the price", just spring for the PM4 and you will be set.

Personally, the choice for me was whether to go for the Mod E or not, and considering the heavier build, PM4, Better paint, and better Chain, it was still a little deciding, but I had to get at least one to do software testing for ErgMonitor, so the first one was obvious. After receiving it and having it in use for a short period, we replaced the other Mod D also, not been disappointed with that at all. In the spirit of full disclosure, I never was all that fond of the D, but at the same time don't particularly care for the new Rail connection method, but we get that whether we like it or not.
Paul,
I think you might be right on the monitor. For the US$150 difference, why not just get the latest and have the expansion capacity for if it I ever need it?
On the decision between D and E. I am used to D. Is there any difference in feel or noise from the D to the E? The rowing motion must be exactly the same mustn't it? I realise that the E is higher off the ground...but I think even on the D I will be able to see over the back of the sofa to the TV?
At my current rate I will be a 1.6 million metres per year rower. That may increase with the convenience of a machine at home. But even at 2 or 3 million metres a year I can't see me wearing out a model D......30 years...90 million metres....90,000 km. The machines at the Y probably suffer more abuse than I will ever give to my machine and I would think they would easily last 90,ooo km?
Regards,
Brent

You wouldn't know the difference with your eyes closed, all geometry when sitting on the machine is identical. If you are having to see over anything, the additional 6 inches above ground will definitely help (can't hurt anyway.) I would caution those below average height that the E can be harder to mount, but that's not an issue for you. (We're similar in size. And it's okay even on slides for both my wife and I, she's 5'7".) wearing out is not really an issue for personal machines with reasonable care, I ran into a person on the weekend that has a Model B that has been in use for 20 years, herself and kids all rowed, and the only thing it's needed is battery changes. I hadn't thought about it before, but I do find myself looking out the window from time to time now that we are using E's, couldn't really see much from the D. I would just as soon been able to pay less and not get the HR belt, but I've used it for a few experiments and it was interesting to see some of the results.

icomefrombirmingham · Post by **icomefrombirmingham** » August 16th, 2007, 4:15 pm

PaulS wrote:
icomefrombirmingham wrote:
PaulS wrote:Remember that Dougie comes from "the land of twice the price", just spring for the PM4 and you will be set.

Personally, the choice for me was whether to go for the Mod E or not, and considering the heavier build, PM4, Better paint, and better Chain, it was still a little deciding, but I had to get at least one to do software testing for ErgMonitor, so the first one was obvious. After receiving it and having it in use for a short period, we replaced the other Mod D also, not been disappointed with that at all. In the spirit of full disclosure, I never was all that fond of the D, but at the same time don't particularly care for the new Rail connection method, but we get that whether we like it or not.
Paul,
I think you might be right on the monitor. For the US$150 difference, why not just get the latest and have the expansion capacity for if it I ever need it?
On the decision between D and E. I am used to D. Is there any difference in feel or noise from the D to the E? The rowing motion must be exactly the same mustn't it? I realise that the E is higher off the ground...but I think even on the D I will be able to see over the back of the sofa to the TV?
At my current rate I will be a 1.6 million metres per year rower. That may increase with the convenience of a machine at home. But even at 2 or 3 million metres a year I can't see me wearing out a model D......30 years...90 million metres....90,000 km. The machines at the Y probably suffer more abuse than I will ever give to my machine and I would think they would easily last 90,ooo km?
Regards,
Brent
You wouldn't know the difference with your eyes closed, all geometry when sitting on the machine is identical. If you are having to see over anything, the additional 6 inches above ground will definitely help (can't hurt anyway.) I would caution those below average height that the E can be harder to mount, but that's not an issue for you. (We're similar in size. And it's okay even on slides for both my wife and I, she's 5'7".) wearing out is not really an issue for personal machines with reasonable care, I ran into a person on the weekend that has a Model B that has been in use for 20 years, herself and kids all rowed, and the only thing it's needed is battery changes. I hadn't thought about it before, but I do find myself looking out the window from time to time now that we are using E's, couldn't really see much from the D. I would just as soon been able to pay less and not get the HR belt, but I've used it for a few experiments and it was interesting to see some of the results.

Well our TV room is in the basement, so to see out of the windows I will need to wait for the model K, which I assume will be four feet off the ground and need a ladder to mount?!
The HRM interests me as I would like to start pushing my times whan I get back into shape...but I'd like to have some indication of how my heart feels about this when I am under stress.
I think I will get the D with PM4...and splash out on RowPro as well.
Gerhard beware!

Brent

Gerhard · Post by **Gerhard** » August 19th, 2007, 8:09 am

icomefrombirmingham wrote: I think I will get the D with PM4...and splash out on RowPro as well.
Gerhard beware!

Brent

Hope to see you soon. My 'sort of' regular times are sunday morning 08.00 GMT and wednesday evening 18.30 GMT. My local times are 2 hours later. Mail me if you want to set up a test-run or something.

icomefrombirmingham · Post by **icomefrombirmingham** » August 21st, 2007, 10:05 pm

Gerhard wrote:
icomefrombirmingham wrote: I think I will get the D with PM4...and splash out on RowPro as well.
Gerhard beware!

Brent
Hope to see you soon. My 'sort of' regular times are sunday morning 08.00 GMT and wednesday evening 18.30 GMT. My local times are 2 hours later. Mail me if you want to set up a test-run or something.

Thanks gerhard I will. But your times over shorter distances are too fast for me at the moment!!
Brent