Model A, Old School meets New School.

[PaulS]

Model A, Old School meets New School.

I finally got around to dusting off the Old Model A and fitting the Electronic pick-up so that a Speedometer/ODO mile could be compared directly to the Electronic PM's. Answering a long standing question regarding claims of performance equivalencies.

My hypothesis, and impression from all the models was that the Mod A was closer to the Mod C, D, E than to the Mod B. But only with regard to the PM's being used. The "PM1" had a "watt table" to produce the displayed pace, rather than the live calculation of instant DF as is done with the PM2 and above. Leading to some error on both sides of a 1:55 pace. On the PM1, Faster was easier and slower was harder, relative to the actual watt requirement.

As is turns out, the A "mile" turns out to be slightly tougher than the PM3 500m. Since the A (Odometer) was based soley on revolution counting it gets ahead of the PM3 at the beginning (counts right from revolution 1), is dead even at 350m into the piece, and finially turns the Mile about 1 second behind the PM3 (500m) at the finish. Even the short video turned out to be 55MB, so longer tests are certainly in order to determing how the deficit adds up, but at least any dispute regarding "which is easier" can end in only one direction, and not in favor of those that like to think we had it easy, "back in the day". 8)

On with the show.

There's no school, like the Old School.

[c2jonw]

Hi Paul- Keep in mind that the old A speedometer only counted revolutions, not the effort required to do so. Air movement, proximity to other ergs, walls, temperature, elevation, etc, etc were not compensated for and could easily change the effort needed to spin the flywheel. So any comparison between the old speedo and a PM will vary with conditions. Hence the early rules at CRASHB about spacing between ergs and keeping spectators out- picture the enthusiastic fan with baggy pants and a raincoat standing by his pals flywheel, cheering him on........C2JonW

[PaulS]

Hi Paul- Keep in mind that the old A speedometer only counted revolutions, not the effort required to do so. Air movement, proximity to other ergs, walls, temperature, elevation, etc, etc were not compensated for and could easily change the effort needed to spin the flywheel. So any comparison between the old speedo and a PM will vary with conditions. Hence the early rules at CRASHB about spacing between ergs and keeping spectators out- picture the enthusiastic fan with baggy pants and a raincoat standing by his pals flywheel, cheering him on........C2JonW

Thanks Jon, you're the only other guy I know that could say how many revs it took.

I tried to maintain a 3 foot rule (boths sideways and off the end) in this test, of course the box (Mod E Leg box) that I used to support the PM3 was perhaps slightly in violation of that, but it didn't seem to interfere too much. The Speedo still is falling behind at the rate of about 2m/0.1mile. Perhaps without the box where it was, though I chose a location/orientation that I felt was the least obstructive, the speedo could have been falling behind at a greater rate, but that would only strengthen the argument for relative comparison. So far it suggests a near 11 second advantage for the PM3 over 2000m (4 Mod A miles = 2066 PM3 meters), at a 1:24 pace (6m/sec). My goal was to find out if the comparison (1mile=500m) was off the mark by much, which it does not appear to be. Pehaps testing with some near obstructions would be interesting to see to what degree the result could change.

So while there are certainly ways to "cheat" with a Model A/Speedo, I'm assuming that those that care about such things would not be doing so. I know we took care during team testing, and ErgoMania had more than double the suggested spacing when I attended in 1983.

I plugged in an old PM2 and got a result that was clearly wrong, Paces in the 5 minute range, this helped us to figure out why ErgMonitor was displaying a similar erroneous Pace, and why the DF display doesn't work for the PM retrofits. (not enough digits)

We found with ErgMonitor that the critical factor was the DF, with the Mod A having a DF in the 2000 (two thousand) range, something that we considered an "error condition" with all other models; once the Error handling was fixed (i.e. range expanded for the A) everything fell right into line. Good to know the physics work out.

Cheers.

[johnlvs2run]

This can be easily settled, just get fatboy on an erg at WIRC and let's see how that 2k time comes out there.

I'm betting his butt ends up at least a minute behind his big mouth.

Any takers.

[PaulS]

This can be easily settled, just get fatboy on an erg at WIRC and let's see how that 2k time comes out there.

I'm betting his butt ends up at least a minute behind his big mouth.

Any takers.

Hi there Ruppy Puppy, Still following me around I see.

Perhaps you have become the most ignored user in both forums, and that is why you are getting no play on this. I see no times mentioned, so whatever it is you are getting on about, no sane person can really tell.

Or it may be that you don't pay up when you lose, so there is no point in anyone pursuing it anyhow.

Yes, I know you will let loose with a series of personal nonsequitor attacks in response to this, but let me give you a hint for a brighter future:

Be nice, and be factual; if you want to question someone, just ask your question and let them respond, remain civil. This way you can be a participant and not earn the rupputation that you have. Remember, there are new users coming into the forum all the time, so you have a chance to create that all important "first impression" anew.

Cheers.

[Morgan]

I've wondered about this before. Thanks for the research and report.


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