New rower purchase?

[AndrewR]

Hi all, tried posting before but nothing ever appeared?

Anyway, I used to own a model D, purchased new with a PM3 monitor. Really liked it but I moved house after some years and didn't really have the room for it anymore, so I reluctantly sold it.

Then I got into cycling/running and that was that for years. Recently, I've really been feeling the running, particularly in the knees so was looking to purchase a new indoor rower to help ease off with the impact training. (I no longer cycle as much for a few different reasons). I don't want to stop running completely as I have a few half-marathons booked.

So I was just wondering, I know the new models have the PM5 monitor and a device holder now, is there anything else that's different from the model I used to own? I used to have to plug in a HR monitor receiver thing on my old one but I wear a garmin (epix) watch now so I assume that will interact with the rower?

Also, does anyone know if a new model or anything like that is imminent? I haven't heard anything but if I buy a new one I plan on keeping it for a while so I don't want it being dated as soon as I purchase.

I now have the room for a rower again and am seriously considering purchasing but just keen to know what is different really? I've seen people talking about apps and virtual loops but not sure about any of that really? I remember looking up distances and times before when I owned one so I could compare myself against others but not sure if that's still a thing?

Anyway thanks for reading, appreciate any replies...

[JaapvanE]

So I was just wondering, I know the new models have the PM5 monitor and a device holder now, is there anything else that's different from the model I used to own? I used to have to plug in a HR monitor receiver thing on my old one but I wear a garmin (epix) watch now so I assume that will interact with the rower?

The PM5 can see the Epix Gen 2 (and newer) for heartrate via ANT+, and it even be added to the Epix as a sensor for the Indoor Rowing activity, allowing you to record it (including breathing data and stroke distance).

Also, does anyone know if a new model or anything like that is imminent? I haven't heard anything but if I buy a new one I plan on keeping it for a while so I don't want it being dated as soon as I purchase.

C2 has never been the company of big announcements. The conversion from model D to RowErg was three years ago, after 10 years of Model D, and the only significant change was the color of the frame. But in the C2 universe, machines aren't outdated as soon as the new model arrives. Parts for model A/B/C are still in stock, despite being decades out of production.

[Tsnor]

So I was just wondering, I know the new models have the PM5 monitor and a device holder now, is there anything else that's different from the model I used to own?

No, extremely similar. You should also look at "dynamic" models and confirm that you prefer the "static" erg. There are advantages to the dynamic models. <I prefer the static ones>

I used to have to plug in a HR monitor receiver thing on my old one but I wear a garmin (epix) watch now so I assume that will interact with the rower?

I have a Garmin 265 watch. I connect it to the rower via ANT+ FEC. That gets power data into the garmin ecosystem. Works great.

I do *not* use the HR broadcast from the 265. Optical wrist based HR monitors are not as stable as belts. They drop out. I use a chest strap instead. ANY chest strap with ANT+ or BTLE (anything made in last decade) works fine with the rower PM5 and will also act as input to your EPIX so you get valid HR data in your Garmin connect workout as well as in the C2 log. If you do not care about dropouts then the HR broadcast from Epix will display on the PM5. You just need to tell your Epix to broadcast when rowing (simple config). If you want to try the Epix before the hassle of a belt then use short/hard intervals with short rest, send the data to the C2 log, look at the HR graph in the log details page. Either you'll see HR misbehavior (some interval HR graphs not the same shape as others) or you won't. The garmin 265 is pretty good. My prior fitbit was hopeless. My belt is enough better than the watch so I wear the belt.

Also, does anyone know if a new model or anything like that is imminent? I haven't heard anything but if I buy a new one I plan on keeping it for a while so I don't want it being dated as soon as I purchase.

Unlikely. No obviously better competitor and C2 history of conservative changes with retrofit to older units (e.g. you can slap PM5 on older rowers) make rower purchase pretty future proof.

Do look at the dynamic units and choose which you prefer. **Just saw this "$1375.00USD
Not available online. Call to order." Surprised not in stock. Maybe a signal of coming change to the dynamic. https://www.concept2.com/ergs/dynamic-r ... 7wQAvD_BwE

I now have the room for a rower again and am seriously considering purchasing but just keen to know what is different really? I've seen people talking about apps and virtual loops but not sure about any of that really? I remember looking up distances and times before when I owned one so I could compare myself against others but not sure if that's still a thing?

Think the really different thing is better log (if you didn't use C2 log before, look at using it now) and better C2 log and PM5 integration into larger training ecosystems (send C2 log data to strava, connect PM5 to garmin, etc.)

You split times are EXACTLY comparable old machine vs new. You'll see how much getting old hurts. Or how well older folks do in endurance sports vs younger.

[AndrewR]

Ok thanks for the replies, pleased a post I've typed has now showed up!

I will probably take the plunge and get a new rower. I've only ever used / owned the standard model so I'll probably purchase that again. I've got a chest strap for HR but the last few garmin wrist based ones I've had seem accurate enough for my needs. Will try both when I get new machine and see what works best.

Probably going to be miles off my old times at first but will enjoy the challenge of trying to work on them!

Really enjoy reading all the comments so hopefully I'll pick up some useful info and it will help with any issues I might run into with data syncing, etc (if there are any issues?) but mainly I hope to build / maintain fitness and spare my knees a little

[MPx]

Really enjoy reading all the comments so hopefully I'll pick up some useful info and it will help with any issues I might run into with data syncing, etc (if there are any issues?) but mainly I hope to build / maintain fitness and spare my knees a little

If you have a PM5, your HR strap connected via Ant+, Ergdata on your phone connected via bluetooth, and C2 logbook linked to your Ergdata app then all of your data is collated and updated automatically. May take a couple of goes to get the initial set up right, but after that its all happens without effort.

[Tsnor]

...your HR strap connected via Ant+, Ergdata on your phone connected via bluetooth, and C2 logbook linked to your Ergdata app then all of your data is collated and updated automatically. May take a couple of goes to get the initial set up right, but after that its all happens without effort.

Also enable Ant+ FEC in PM5 then connect your garmin Epix watch as a sensor using ANT+ FEC. (One time setup for both watch and PM5, just works with no setup after first time when you start indoor rowing activity on watch.)

Garmin connect will give you workout graphs for: Heart Rate; Temperature; Pace; Power: Watts; Respiration Rate; Stroke Rate; Distance Per Stroke.

Since none of my sensors measure respiration rate, but it's reported and seems reasonable, Garmin may be getting it from HRV data (same as for sleep stages). For me, on a long slow piece, respiration seems to stay about 2 breathes per stroke at 20 strokes per minute.

All this seems like a lot of moving parts, but as MPX says its easy after setup. For me I put on HR belt, start ergdata on phone and pull a stroke. Ergdata connects to PM5 and tells PM5 to connect HR monitor. Then I start indoor rowing on watch. Watch also grabs HR monitor signal and connects to PM5.

Before I had the watch collect data I had C2 log push data to garmin -- that worked well but no power data. Now with ant+ FE-C I turned off the C2 to garmin bridge. All rowing data comes PM5->Garmin 265->Garmin connect.

[AndrewR]

Sounds good. I like the idea of syncing the rower with my watch and also, either through the watch or app logging my rows on Strava as well.

Can you still see tables with times for other people? I remember looking up different categories and distances and then seeing how I compared or is that all done through the app or logbook?

[Tsnor]

Can you still see tables with times for other people? I remember looking up different categories and distances and then seeing how I compared or is that all done through the app or logbook?

https://log.concept2.com/rankings

look for "rankings" at the bottom of your log book. Remember that this is a VERY biased sample. Your mid pack "ranked" time could be top 5% of all rowers. Fewer slower rowers rank their times. If you are number 358 in your age group, you are ranked 358 in the world. And another 10 seconds better gets you top 200...

ALSO you can join a group ('affiliation'). Then you see the km rowed by people in your group. It can be motivating. Using date filters you can see who rowed this week, etc. Fun especially off season if you row OTW and want to spy on your teammates.

ALSO training partners is really strong. You can see complete workouts your friends do and vice versa.

Finally you can look in the forum and get discouraged by how fast the people are.... then use the ranking tab to see they are #3 in the world in their age group, so maybe you don't have to match them. Some really strong people in this forum.

[MPx]

look for "rankings" at the bottom of your log book. Remember that this is a VERY biased sample. Your mid pack "ranked" time could be top 5% of all rowers. Fewer slower rowers rank their times. If you are number 358 in your age group, you are ranked 358 in the world. And another 10 seconds better gets you top 200...

I agree that the sample is very biased and features more faster ergers - but don't agree about "best in the world". There's a whole other set of elite out there, primarily in the OTW (on the water) community, that have absolutely no interest in comparing erg scores and don't use the rankings. But like all competitions and comparisons, you can only go against those that turn up, and getting nearer the top of the ranking groups is as valid a motivation and source of pride as any other. Most age groups have several hundred entrants, certainly up to age 70+ so its a significant sample, however biased, and a fair indicator of relative performance.

[AndrewR]

Ok thanks, I'll check that out when I'm up and running (rowing!)

[JaapvanE]

Also, does anyone know if a new model or anything like that is imminent? I haven't heard anything but if I buy a new one I plan on keeping it for a while so I don't want it being dated as soon as I purchase.

Something is in the pipeline, being revealed tomorrow: https://www.instagram.com/concept2inc/

[Dave Neve]

Hello AndrewR and all

On a side note, if I was a runner and had started to feel it in my knees, but wanted to continue, I would look at elliptical running machines where your feet never leave the pedals, to reduce impact. Preferably one with handles that move (push and pull) which is a personal preference of mine

A long time ago, I got a herniated disc in the middle of a squash match, and it was hell.

But within a week of the accident, I was back training on such machines. When I would get off the machine, I needed crutches to walk across the hard gym floor as this hurt so much.

People could not believe that I needed crutches after seeing me on the machine, and I could understand them as I could hardly believe it either, but it was true.

That's how good they are at reducing impact.

[Slidewinder]

Also, does anyone know if a new model or anything like that is imminent? I haven't heard anything but if I buy a new one I plan on keeping it for a while so I don't want it being dated as soon as I purchase.

Who knows what those C2 engineers have been up to. One of the big innovations I remember was when C2 introduced the black Model D. That sure shook up the indoor rowing community! https://youtu.be/fyl691X_OtQ?si=3OFDLD9fVZ28hTG7

[JaapvanE]

does anyone know if a new model or anything like that is imminent?

Itis a "StrengthErg", which comes with or without a PM5. See https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBRC5MuJDJr

[AndrewR]

The new strength machine looks interesting but not something I think I need.
Not really thought about an elliptical trainer? Maybe I should?
But I do like the fact the indoor rower is different to running / cycling and having owned one before, I know how tough they are so probably still leaning towards that...