thoughts on this used C2 (and meaning of numbers)

[ecrow]

Looking at a used c2, Its a model D with PM5. seller sent photo of info screen with these numbers -

PM5 HW:
431474070 1622021 NV
7200-000370-906 Model D/E
680628 lifetime meters

from what I understand the no. of meters shouldn't be a concern, right?
I don't know what the numbers mean, I tried to google serial number but it doesn't match the format, maybe this isn't the s/n?
what can you tell from these numbers? date?

said it was used in a gym which is my only concern, those are used pretty heavily right? but are they also maintained?
the price is decent and I will save a few hundred which I think is the most you can expect for these.

[gvcormac]

The "lifetime meters" reflects the age of the PM5, not necessarily the machine. If it was used in a gym, I'd expect it to be much, much higher.

That said, C2s are pretty robust and the parts are replaceable. If it is in good working condition, it'll sell for several hundred dollars. Since COVID, it is difficult to estimate more precisely than that.

If you can try it, or have someone familiar with how it should feel, that'd be great. Otherwise, you take your chances ... but probably anything wrong can be fixed for not too much money.

[Ombrax]

One thing to keep in mind:

https://www.concept2.com/service/monito ... s-odometer

"You can reset the Lifetime Meters on a PM3, PM4 or PM5 by performing a hard factory reset (see below). Depending on the age of the monitor (PM3 or PM4 Firmware Versions less than 300), the Lifetime Meters can also be reset by removing the batteries for more than a few minutes. While Lifetime Meters may be an indicator of the amount of use or wear on a particular machine, it may be misleading if the Lifetime Meters are reset or if the monitor has been replaced during the life of the machine."

If it's possible, I'd inspect it in person before handing over the $$$.

Good luck.

[ecrow]

The "lifetime meters" reflects the age of the PM5, not necessarily the machine. If it was used in a gym, I'd expect it to be much, much higher.

That said, C2s are pretty robust and the parts are replaceable. If it is in good working condition, it'll sell for several hundred dollars. Since COVID, it is difficult to estimate more precisely than that.

If you can try it, or have someone familiar with how it should feel, that'd be great. Otherwise, you take your chances ... but probably anything wrong can be fixed for not too much money.

this means the machine could be older and have a new PM5, or it was reset at some point, right?

does the serial number tell anything?

there's also a serial number on the back on the actual unit (on flywheel), is that meant to match whats shown in the PM5 screen?

[jamesg]

https://www.concept2.com/service/indoor-rowers/model-d

There should be a label on the machine itself.

Ds date from 2003 to 2021. 1622021 in the PM probably means 16 feb 2021, so it's effectively new, unless the PM has been replaced.

I've a C dating before 2003. The flywheel stopped engaging a few days ago. Took the fan cover and the flywheel off, doused the bearing(s) in the flywheel in oil, put it all together again, worked perfectly (yesterday). I've likely done about a 20 million meters on it.

Oil on the chain, clean the rail and the fan: nothing else ever done. I put an air filter over the air inlet some ten years ago, and yesterday the cage was clean; but drag is very low: DF=85, which suits me fine.

[ecrow]

https://www.concept2.com/service/indoor-rowers/model-d

There should be a label on the machine itself.

Ds date from 2003 to 2021. 1622021 in the PM probably means 16 feb 2021, so it's effectively new, unless the PM has been replaced.

I've a C dating before 2003. The flywheel stopped engaging a few days ago. Took the fan cover and the flywheel off, doused the bearing(s) in the flywheel in oil, put it all together again, worked perfectly (yesterday). I've likely done about a 20 million meters on it.

Oil on the chain, clean the rail and the fan: nothing else ever done. I put an air filter over the air inlet some ten years ago, and yesterday the cage was clean; but drag is very low: DF=85, which suits me fine.

have some more details - serial number from C2, and info screen.



the s/n from back of device is in this format (3 groups) from c2 site -

October 17, 2005–May 23, 2018
The serial number contains three groups of numbers separated by dashes. The first group of numbers represents the date the unit was boxed, the second group represents the Concept2 part number, and the third group represents the monitor serial number.

the 3rd section doesn't match the s/n shown in PM5, which means that the date of device is older than the PM5 which was replaced, right? Is this a problem? the range for when the C2 was made is huge (2005-18). If this theory is correct then the actual miles on it are much much higher (i.e. more wear and tear) and gym upgraded the monitor sometime in 2021?

I am also going to contact C2 tomorrow to see if they can tell me when this was made. The asking price for this is 750 which is lower than anything else I've seen where I live, they are usually ~850. I've also seen one with PM3 for 650 which is gone now.

I can wait a while and buy new around the holidays, but $300-400 is a sizeable chunk of change. At the same time I don't want any risks. Never thought this would be so stressful esp for something which is said to be so reliable.

[Ombrax]

If you have access to the rower yourself you can get a rough idea of how much it's been used by examining the top of the rail surface and the seat rollers themselves. You can also look for abnormal wear on the foot straps, and other load bearing / wear areas of the foot plates.

If you like the price, then an in-person examination will tell you if it's been abused or not and if it has a huge number of meters on it. If you're prepared to walk away (and assuming you don't have to drive a long way to take a look) then there really isn't much of a down side to check it out.

[Citroen]

The rower looks to date from 2017. The serial is 0223170 which is 23rd Feb 2017.
The PM5 is second from last on the firmware version: https://www.concept2.com/service/monitors/pm5/firmware.

If the mileage (kilometreage) is reliable then it's not been used much. It looks like that PM5 may have been replaced.

[CRO_Express]

For gym used machine, roughly count on 1,5 - 2 mil meters per year of age, no matter what the monitor says.

[ecrow]

If you have access to the rower yourself you can get a rough idea of how much it's been used by examining the top of the rail surface and the seat rollers themselves. You can also look for abnormal wear on the foot straps, and other load bearing / wear areas of the foot plates.

If you like the price, then an in-person examination will tell you if it's been abused or not and if it has a huge number of meters on it. If you're prepared to walk away (and assuming you don't have to drive a long way to take a look) then there really isn't much of a down side to check it out.

I was able to check it out. The rollers have some dust buildup, I don't see bigscratches in other areas.



I did a few rows and it seems smooth, but I'm new to these and don't really know where to look. Checked drag factor - it was 65 at lowest damper and 105 at damper 5-6. Which seems low, correct? Don't gyms maintain equipment? Chain seems to go back ok (was testing for bungee strength).

Also called C2, they confirm it was made Feb 2017 and PM5 is from Feb 2021. So its original PM5 was replaced, no idea why and no way to tell total lifetime meters,

Is this still worth buying given its from a gym with lot of use and above details?

[gvcormac]

The drag factor numbers indicate that the cage is (very) dirty. That's all.

[Edit: I originally thought you wrote the larger number at damper 10. It is still dirty, but perhaps not very dirty.]

[Ombrax]

Is this still worth buying given its from a gym with lot of use and above details?

If you aren't in the mood to spend the $$$ on a brand new one, if other used ones in your area are a bit more expensive, and if it appears to be in overall good condition (the low-ish DF is easily remedied) then I say go for it. In all likelihood you would have caught any big issues that would take more $ to repair than what you're saving compared to other used. High meters on their own are not necessarily a reason to not purchase a used rower.

Finally, when you remove the cover to clean / wipe out the flywheel and vacuum that area and all air passages, be very careful to not disturb or knock off the flywheel balance weight(s). If you do and you can't figure out where each one was you'll be in a world of hurt, because from what I've read re-balancing is not a simple DIY job, so you'd likely have to replace the entire flywheel, which itself isn't super-easy.

Good Luck

[Carl Watts]

Anyone who removes the flywheel cover should mark the balancing weights and their positions immediately.

The weights are not even the same, they change the thickness of the metal clips so you have a at least 2 or 3 different types.

Meters on the monitor are totally meaningless, you need to look at the condition of the rest of the rower.

[ecrow]

Is this still worth buying given its from a gym with lot of use and above details?

If you aren't in the mood to spend the $$$ on a brand new one, if other used ones in your area are a bit more expensive, and if it appears to be in overall good condition (the low-ish DF is easily remedied) then I say go for it. In all likelihood you would have caught any big issues that would take more $ to repair than what you're saving compared to other used. High meters on their own are not necessarily a reason to not purchase a used rower.

Finally, when you remove the cover to clean / wipe out the flywheel and vacuum that area and all air passages, be very careful to not disturb or knock off the flywheel balance weight(s). If you do and you can't figure out where each one was you'll be in a world of hurt, because from what I've read re-balancing is not a simple DIY job, so you'd likely have to replace the entire flywheel, which itself isn't super-easy.

Good Luck

I watched these 2 videos -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-PVMQQ2LTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ERvBKXedA

as well as official instructions - https://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/i ... eaning.pdf

none of these mention flywheel weights. is that only an issue when you further disassemble things? and is that needed? I did look at the perforated strip and it didn't seem dirty, so this means there must be dirt/fluff inside? can I just follow the method in the video above and after that is the drag restored to original values or not?

[gvcormac]

There are balancing weights clipped onto the blades of the flywheel. Not unlike balancing weights on car wheels. You're unlikely to knock them loose, but if you're concerned, take a photo before you start brushing the flywheel fins.