Re: Would adding Slides to my Model D be appropriate for me?

[ampire]

I own a C2 Model D from 2005 with PM5. I use the machine for periods of time over the years, but I typically stop erg rowing due to other seasonal sports taking its place (eg hiking, golf, etc). I will never row competitively, eg CrossFit or Crash-B, or on the water. I prefer not to purchase a C2 Dynamic Rower because I find its complexity of pulleys and Dyneema unappealing. I have read other forum threads regarding slides and have some idea about the comparison of slides to non-slides for rowing times and splits. The cost and adequate indoor space are not issues for me. I do not have access to slides to try them personally.

I am contemplating slides for these three reasons:

Although I do not have any immediate orthopedic medical issues (eg low back pain, knees, hips), I am in my early 50s and wish to keep as low-impact in my rowing as possible over the years ahead.

I frequently row while watching a large-screen TV, and am wondering if doing so would be more comfortable with slides due to less back-and-forth motion of the eyes and head relative to the fixed-in-place TV.

Variety is crucial to me and I am wondering if the slides will give enough of a “different feel” (eg. smoothness, increased SPM, moving rower wt rather than body wt, etc.) that mixing slide workouts with my non-slide workouts would reduce long-term boredom over months to years of erg rowing (independent of row-alongs, challenges, teams, training partners, etc).

Am I barking up the wrong tree? Perhaps there are other slide benefits for non-competitive general fitness that I am missing, or maybe even the ones I have outlined are full of holes.

Thanks for any input or personal experience with incorporating slides into your workouts.

For all of those reasons, I think that slides are a good purchase for you. You might be slower at first on slides but after a few weeks you will be at parity with your previous pacing and you will start to really see the benefits of slides: improved form, less impact on joints, easier TV viewing, better cooling fan position, less aches and pains. Rowing for general fitness and to rehabilitate my spinal cord, it is one of the best purchases I have made.

[mict450]

....the benefits of slides: improved form, less impact on joints, easier TV viewing, better cooling fan position, less aches and pains. Rowing for general fitness and to rehabilitate my spinal cord, it is one of the best purchases I have made.

Erging is tough enough without having to endure the negative impacts on one's body. On my dynamic, dealing with less inertial forces at the front & back ends of the stroke has made a huge difference in how I feel at the end of a session. Now pleasantly tired, but no longer achy & stiff, like rigor mortis has set in.

[StevenWayne]

Thank you for the latest input from Eric, Ampire, and Mark. Truly appreciate your perspective. Thank you.

Asking for advice and not taking it is like asking for a glass of water and not drinking it. I’m ordering the slides! I was really on the fence, but you all pulled me into the pasture; in fact, there was not one comment that outright suggested against them, and several of you have added ideas beyond those in my initial post.

As you suggest below, Rick, and to complete the circle of this thread for future reference of those that Google it, I’ll give a little update on new slides (I’ve never set eyes on slides before) here in this thread after a week of use, and then after a couple months of use.

[StevenWayne]

Initial impressions: The pair of C2 slides arrived in a single 55 pound (25 kg) box, directly from Concept 2 Vermont, via Fed Ex. The shipping cost me a flat $45 US. Taking them out of the box, I was impressed by the heft (approx 24 pounds/11 kg each) and the refinement. They are solidly built, perfectly square, and have a matte painted black finish and logo mirroring the current C2 D. No assembly required, bungees properly tuned at the factory. I arranged them on carpeted floor as per instructions at 18.5” spacing and parallel with each other. C2 model D rower sits atop them easily.

My first rows were three gentle sets of 2:30 pace at 10 minutes apiece just to get my "sea legs". ErgData app pulldown menu for “Indoor Rower with Slides” transferred to my C2 Logbook (no adjustments necessary within the PM5). I immediately enjoyed the feel of the rower moving under me, my erg seat barely moving. I did not strike the slide ends, but had to concentrate a bit to avoid hitting the front. My floor tilts ever so slightly to the fore of the rower, so before the 2nd set I added wooden shims of 3/8” (0.95 cm) to the front of the slides and never had to concern myself with being too close to the front or back again.

After only 30 minutes, it feels like any rower is incomplete without slides. They are so quiet (as you pointed out) and so natural and so easy on my joints, particularly my low back, that they are a joy to row. The learning curve is minimal. I am not a powerful rower, but have reasonable technique, and my 5’ 9” (175 cm)/170 lb (77 kg) frame adapted almost immediately. In the final ten minutes, I watched a ball game and did not have to think about the rowing at all, and the TV watching was improved with less to and fro of my eyes.

I agree with the comments noting the smoothness, especially at the catch. Buttery!

The greatest surprise for me was the SPM. I was anticipating a high SPM, such as 30+, as this has been mentioned in other threads and I see this stroke rate on Youtube (Travis Gardner rowing channel has great footage of his using erg on slides, usually at high SPM; anyone considering slides, YouTube search his channel). My casual slides SPM was 22, same as on static, when on my typical damper setting of 4 and usual pace. For the final set, I dropped the damper to 2, and sure enough my SPM went to 26, but that’s identical to my static SPM on damper 2. I didn’t experience the high SPM that I was anticipating (but I wasn’t pushing for pace either). I will do more paced and timed intervals in the weeks ahead to see comparison to static erg, but it’s clear that the “abuse” on my body will be less on slides. If anyone has other experiences or things I should try or anticipate, please chime in.

The Concept 2 slides exude quality. The somewhat steep price is mitigated once eyes are set upon the thick-gauge, well-made hardware and once the smoothness of dynamic slide rowing is experienced. Worthwhile for all the reasons offered by those who replied (thanks again) and I feel this is a fantastic accessory for anyone with the funds and space.

[Rick]

Great review, Steve. Thanks for mentioning the issue with leveling to the floor. That’s something I have not even thought to check. I’m sure your experience in considering the purchase, making the move to try them, then recounting the initial experiences will be very helpful to all. It surely is to me!

[StevenWayne]

I wished to update this thread for future readers who search Concept 2 Slides. I have used them now for about 6 weeks. Once again, I wish to thank those of you with experience who encouraged me to buy slides.

I was incorrect about SPM, as the stroke pace is indeed quicker than on the static erg — 28-30 SPM is not unusual on slides. That said, one can still row at 19-20 SPM if they choose to do so, but “personal bests” will likely be at higher SPM. If one makes an effort for quick stokes, then 35-40 SPM can be achieved on slides; this would be nearly impossible for any length of time on a static ergometer.

Split times are slightly faster, for me about 2 seconds per 500m. With increased SPM, I believe the “work” is the same as on a static machine.

The most noticeable take-away from slides rowing is the much reduced punishment on the body. The spine, the arms, the hips are much better preserved as a result of not moving the weight of body (in my case, 170 pounds), and instead moving only the 60 pound Model D, a net reduction of over 100 pounds per stroke! The difference is felt even in the hands as I was getting a case of blistering and general hand pain that quickly ameliorated once on the slides. There is no doubt in my mind that for the mature rower, or the injured rower, or the frequent (daily without days off) rower, C2 slides are of profound benefit.

I am completely comfortable with the slides technique, and only hit ends (front or rear) when I am aggressively accelerating pace rather than doing it smoothly over 2 or 3 strokes. Shimming the slides to get perfect horizontal flatness is vital. I use hardware store wooden shims which come in a box of 50 and are intended to shim installed windows, and a classic bubble level. The slides being level is important! I do not have to consciously think about "staying on the slides” or “not bumping”…using them is natural and without thought for me now (took about one week to truly get comfortable).

The slides do mandate good form and no “sloppiness”, but it is easier to get that form due to the more gentle pull. The upright spine followed the deployment (“snapping open”) of the hips, for instance, is much easier when your “pull” weight is only 1/3 of the static erg. Also, on slides, one is better able to handle higher damper settings — my baseline setting went from 4 with the static erg to now 5 (25% higher) on the slides. Additionally, I notice the “catch” (transition from forward handle to pulling handle) can be more aggressive, yet less jarring, as there is not a huge jerking “tug” like on the static Model D. The catch is significantly and pleasantly smoother when using slides.

The slides promote very little to-and-fro seat movement, so they make it more enjoyable for watching and listening to TV. Need fan, though, as the athlete will get hot since not moving back and forth.

I do not have a C2 dynamic ergometer, so I can offer no direct comparison. That said, I do not desire a dynamic rower now that I own slides. For the off-water rowing enthusiast, the dynamic would seem to add no further advantages over the slides (except perhaps storage size), and the clackety-clack of the dynamic and its intricate pulley system are things that I, personally, wish to avoid.

The biggest disadvantage of slides over a static model D erg is the ability to move the system. As it takes some care to get the two slides perfectly parallel with one another, then work on leveling them, then placing the Model D on them carefully, it it not something one would wish to move often. In fact, I had anticipated using the set-up in my “great room”, aka family room, where I used to wheel out the Model D for each workout. This is too cumbersome with the slides, and since they were in the way to leave in the middle of the room, I acquiesced to moving the entire kit-and-kaboodle to the upstairs hallway! I could lift the erg off the slides, break the Model D down, take each piece outdoors to the patio, row without slides on a gorgeous spring afternoon, then schlep it all back upstairs to place on slides again, but am I going to do all that? No. Bottom line: If storing the slides and erg involves your moving them for every workout, slides likely will not work for you. The slides and erg are best left in an undisturbed space to sit idle between uses.

The slides are perfectly quiet during use and there is no maintenance that I can see other than wiping them down with Windex, just like the rail of the erg, about every two weeks. Someone mentioned that they remove the erg from the slides after every workout so the slides don’t develop any pressure where the weight of the erg always rests on the same place on the slide tracks. The slides are so robust, I doubt this could cause any appreciable damage, but to provide variable slack for the bungees, I do vary the location of the erg on the slide rails with a wedge (I use the construction bubble level) during short term storage so the Model D is not always resting on exactly the same spot on the slide rails, and the bungee cables aren’t always taught in precisely the same pattern; if someone told me this is a completely unnecessary waste of my time, I couldn’t successfully refute them. A different slide user posted that they stood the slides upright against a wall when not used for a length of time, and wondered if this is what stretched their bungees. Should I need to store them away from the ergometer, I would stack one slide atop the other and push them beneath my bed.

No regrets about the purchase, definitely prefer using them as opposed to static ergometer, and enjoy every workout. They are solidly built (approx 25 pounds each) and should last a lifetime with only an easy bungee change every couple of years. I look forward to many miles of rowing with them. Just keep in mind, if you are looking for me, I won’t be on my back patio rowing in the sunshine; you’ll find me sweating in front of an oscillating fan in my upstairs hallway.

[Ombrax]

Thanks for the update, Steve - I'm glad that you're happy with the purchase and find them to be beneficial.

Your experience has definitely motivated me to think harder about getting some for my Model C at home. The "reduced punishment" aspect is intriguing - as I get older my body doesn't recover as quickly as it used to, so every little bit helps.

"Happy" erging!

[Citroen]

Split times are slightly faster, for me about 2 seconds per 500m. With increased SPM, I believe the “work” is the same as on a static machine.

You're breaking the laws of physics if you believe that.

If your split times are better you're putting more watts into the system.

For example, a 2K piece in 8 minutes is 202.5W, a 2K piece in 7 minutes is 302.3W regardless of whether you're on a static ergo or a ergo on slides or a dynamic ergo. Watts are Joules/second. Joules are a measure of work.

[StevenWayne]

Ombrax, you would love them (if you have the space for them). As an avid rower, it seems in my mind that there is little to no chance you would buy them and say "I don't like these". If you ever get them, let us know.

Thank you, Citroen. You always have great input and help many, including me. Your point re: joules is well taken. Honestly, my times might be better because my hands and spine don't hurt as much during the row. lol