new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

[Noseve]

I've had issues with more than one gym erg where the exit screen has become dusty/dirty/"linty" on the inside. It then isn't cleaned because it looks OK to the gym maintenance crew--on the outside. This debris partially impedes the outflow and mimics a looser tension. In other words, your home erg is probably OK, the gym's are too loose. Ask them to pull the cover while you watch (otherwise they may tell you it's been cleaned and I am leading you astray.

Don't get me wrong, this probably isn't the gym's fault. Most use an outside service for their equipment maintenance and I bet very few are experts at partial disassembly and cleaning of C2 ergs.

Dave

OP did actually state he was using a consistent drag factor.

[Noseve]

Heartgrain, have you learned anything more about this yet? What do the comparitive watt stats tell you?

[marcmartineau]

Hi Hearetygrain,

Have you done some more troubleshooting for your issue ?

I’m glad I’ve found your post because I am experiencing the same issue with my new Model E rower. Mine is a refurbished rower bought directly at the Concept2 facility.

I was rowing on a model E very well maintained on a cruise ship with a drag factor of approx 120. It was easy to go lower than 2:00 for the 500m split, rowing sometimes at 1:45 to 1:50 in peak rowing, while, at home, for the same drag factor, I have to row my ass off to go under 2:00 ! I am 5’9 213 pounds and I am strong as I do weightlifting and TRX workouts 4-5 times a week 1 to 1.5 hours session.

I am also thinking that there is something wrong with my rower as the difference between the 2 rowers, in split time is too much to be a perception thing.

BTW, my rower is in my basement with humidity around 30-35% and a temperature around 63-65 F.

Thanks for your help !

[johnlvs2run]

I would take it back and get a new one, or a Skierg.

[Anth_F]

Yunno, the more i think about this stuff, it could be perception tbh. Some days i can row @ 2:02 pace r22 and feel nicely settled, and it doesn't feel like i'm needing to work too hard, then other days @ 2:05 pace r21 it can feel like a grind, all done at the same df. A lot is how fresh you are and rested etc. I don't think the rower is to blame every time for stuff like this.

[Ombrax]

I was rowing on a model E very well maintained on a cruise ship with a drag factor of approx 120. It was easy to go lower than 2:00 for the 500m split, rowing sometimes at 1:45 to 1:50 in peak rowing, while, at home, for the same drag factor, I have to row my ass off to go under 2:00 ! I am 5’9 213 pounds and I am strong as I do weightlifting and TRX workouts 4-5 times a week 1 to 1.5 hours session.

I am also thinking that there is something wrong with my rower as the difference between the 2 rowers, in split time is too much to be a perception thing.

For most folks rowing at 1:45 for an extended period of time isn't easy. That's especially true if they're new to rowing.

Assuming there was an issue with one of the two ergs I bet it was with the one on the cruise ship, and that yours is fine.

[jackarabit]

Well Cowboy, we see things not as they are but as we are. Wasn’t Allan O. saying that just yesterday? Thinking maybe all them new but slow ergs need to be moved to the public gym or cruise ship where the old but mighty ergs strut their stuff.

[marcmartineau]

For most folks rowing at 1:45 for an extended period of time isn't easy. That's especially true if they're new to rowing.

Assuming there was an issue with one of the two ergs I bet it was with the one on the cruise ship, and that yours is fine.

Well, something that I didn’t mention on my first post, is that there was 2 Model E rower in the cruise ship gym, and I tried both as I was there for 11 days. Both rowers were giving me the same results. My training sessions were 30 minutes of rowing broke down like this :

5min start at 22-24 SPM
20 minutes HIIT (40 sec at 34-40 SPM followed by 20 second recovery 20 SPM). In that 40 sec, I was reaching sometimes 1:37 to 1:40 split time, something that I can’t get on my new Model E, even if I pull as hard as I can !
5 min recovery at 20-22 SPM low wattage.

Very strange...

[GordG]

I've never seen the inside of an erg, or spent time researching C2 mechanics (for all I know squirrels could be running the show) - so the following musing is strictly based on blissful ignorance.

Does the RM5 only calculate the DF in one direction (based on the force of the drive and finish), and if so, is it possible that the chain lacks lubrication and is slowing the wheel on the recovery? It would seem to me, that would display a consistent DF, while adding soul killing time to the pace.

Just a guess. Feel free to mock me, and earn points for being the most creative.

[Noseve]

Yunno, the more i think about this stuff, it could be perception tbh. Some days i can row @ 2:02 pace r22 and feel nicely settled, and it doesn't feel like i'm needing to work too hard, then other days @ 2:05 pace r21 it can feel like a grind, all done at the same df. A lot is how fresh you are and rested etc. I don't think the rower is to blame every time for stuff like this.

The OP was talking about 20 second discrepancy over 500m - not quite the same thing...

[Anth_F]

If you read the last part of my post thats the important bit that you failed to pickup on. The OP may have a valid case, but i doubt every man and his dog who jumps in here now stating similar occurrences with not quite as large a "discrepancy" and has vague ideas has one as well.

In that 40 sec, I was reaching sometimes 1:37 to 1:40 split time, something that I can’t get on my new Model E, even if I pull as hard as I can !
5 min recovery at 20-22 SPM low wattage.

Very strange...

Running in miles not covered yet i reckon

[Noseve]

If you read the last part of my post thats the important bit that you failed to pickup on. The OP may have a valid case, but i doubt every man and his dog who jumps in here now stating similar occurrences with not quite as large a "discrepancy" and has vague ideas has one as well.

In that 40 sec, I was reaching sometimes 1:37 to 1:40 split time, something that I can’t get on my new Model E, even if I pull as hard as I can !
5 min recovery at 20-22 SPM low wattage.

Very strange...

Running in miles not covered yet i reckon

Noted, and agreed

[johnlvs2run]

There were 2 Model E rower in the cruise ship gym, and I tried both as I was there for 11 days.
Both rowers were giving me the same results. My training sessions were 30 minutes of rowing broke down like this :
5min start at 22-24 SPM
20 minutes HIIT (40 sec at 34-40 SPM followed by 20 second recovery 20 SPM). In that 40 sec, I was reaching
sometimes 1:37 to 1:40 split time, something that I can’t get on my new Model E, even if I pull as hard as I can !
5 min recovery at 20-22 SPM low wattage.

Have you tried the same 20 minutes HIIT as you did on the ship? If not, do that and then report the results.
If the results are the same, then the erg should be fine. If not, and there is still a great discrepancy, then there's
an issue with the erg. In that case, I would definitely return the erg to C2 and then replace it with a new one or a Skierg.

[Slidewinder]

20 minutes HIIT (40 sec at 34-40 SPM followed by 20 second recovery 20 SPM). In that 40 sec, I was reaching sometimes 1:37 to 1:40 split time, something that I can’t get on my new Model E, even if I pull as hard as I can !
5 min recovery at 20-22 SPM low wattage.

At a 1:40 split time, at 36 spm, this is 60 strokes in that time. If your average stroke length is 4.5 feet, in that time you will be moving the handle a total of 270 feet during the drive portion of the stroke. If the elastic cord in your home unit requires 2 pounds extra force to stretch than the elastic cords in the heavily used cruise ship units, that 2 pounds of extra force over the 270 feet stroke length distance is equivalent to lifting a 20 pound weight through a vertical distance of 27 feet. The PM does not measure the energy expended to stretch the elastic cord, therefore the effort to lift that extra virtual weight is not recorded on the monitor of your home unit. Therefore, even if your expended energy on your home unit and on the cruise ship units are identical, the monitor on your home unit will record a slower time. This is not psychological.

[Noseve]

At a 1:40 split time, at 36 spm, this is 60 strokes in that time. If your average stroke length is 4.5 feet, in that time you will be moving the handle a total of 270 feet during the drive portion of the stroke. If the elastic cord in your home unit requires 2 pounds extra force to stretch than the elastic cords in the heavily used cruise ship units, that 2 pounds of extra force over the 270 feet stroke length distance is equivalent to lifting a 20 pound weight through a vertical distance of 27 feet. The PM does not measure the energy expended to stretch the elastic cord, therefore the effort to lift that extra virtual weight is not recorded on the monitor of your home unit. Therefore, even if your expended energy on your home unit and on the cruise ship units are identical, the monitor on your home unit will record a slower time. This is not psychological.

Very interesting, and all seems to make perfect sense - presumably, then, everybody who has a replacement cord notices this apparent change in performance?