PM5 and Ant+

[Mercador]

Hello,

I got my rower since 2-3 weeks now and it can't always pair with my Heart-rate belt. I got a belt from Garmin (with my forerunner 410). Earlier, it was working ok but in the last few days, I had hard time to connect to the HRM. So I though that my HRM battery was dead, so I changed it. Still, it's really hard to pair with my HRM and every now and then, I lost the signal. It's not really helpful, moreover that I need that to keep steady and not overdoing it.

Any ideas ? Best to buy a Bluetooth belt ?

Thanks!

Edit: Actually, I think it's since I've changed the firmware that it's less stable than it was before.

[Carl Watts]

The ANT+ is a great system to use on the HR belts.

Using a Garmin chest strap with the PM4 and as long as you pre-wet the belt its works first go 90% of the time with the PM4.

For some reason it forgets the belt 10% of the time and you need to go in and connect manually when the belt appears and you go connect.

Overall much better than the old Polar system as the range is too short on the Polar and you cannot run two of the Polar in the same room.

The PM5 should be pretty much the same.

[jackarabit]

The Garmin HRM-1G works reliably with the PM4 and 5, good battery life, inexpensive. See an occasional but very brief dropout.

[chrisl]

Hi, I'm considering getting a Garmin HRM, ie a strap and watch. If I do, can both the watch and a PM4 or PM5 simultaneously access the strap? And does the PM4 work as is, no extra dongles needed?

Regards,
Chris

[Carl Watts]

I think you can do a watch and the monitor the same time with ANT+ and no you don't need a dongle with the PM4 and PM5 the wireless is built in to the monitor.

The starp that works well is here.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/shop-by ... 10996.html

Not sure why you would really need a watch as well unless you really want to get into a load of analysis, the results in the monitor tell me what I need to know.

[chrisl]

Hi Carl, thanks for the info. It's not essential that I can use the watch at the same time, I was just curious as I'd prefer it if possible.

The reason I ask is I have a Polar FT1 and T31 coded strap and I have the Polar receiver for the PM4. Both the watch and the PM4 display my heart rate without problems. But other gyms have PM5s and annoyingly the Polar receiver isn't supported. I was going to upgrade the strap to a Polar H7 since this can talk old protocol to the watch and Bluetooth Smart to the PM5 simultaneously. But it feels a bit of a messy hack that just happens to work. If I later upgraded the watch then I suspect I cannot talk Bluetooth Smart to both the watch and the PM5 and I'm back in the same boat.

Therefore I'd prefer a simpler solution and ideally one which does away with the Polar receiver too. To make things more confusing the PM pages online say they support Garmin and ANT+, but then these are talked about interchangeably as Garmin belts being ANT+ devices. Having spent some time trying to decipher all this, I think if I can get a Garmin watch and strap, and the PM4 and PM5 supports them natively, and the strap can talk to both the watch and the PM at the same time, then that sorts everything out neatly.

Regards,
Chris

[Carl Watts]

It was a bit annoying they dumped the Polar with the PM5 and I have a couple of good chestbelts and two receivers for the monitors but at the end of the day they will probably only last as long as my PM3 and PM4 anyway and I'm in no hurry to move to the PM5.

There is no looking back when you move to the Garmin ANT+ belts anyway, much better than the old Polar system. Cannot comment on the Bluetooth, have had very mixed experiences with it on other equipment. As long as the Bluetooth is an "Option" I would still stick to a USB cable from the monitor to the PC or ultimately a smart TV directly.

Multiple wireless links in the system sounds like a headache to me until the hardware/firmware is bullet proof.

[lcantey]

The Wahoo TICKR works well and is dual ANT+ and Bluetooth which gives great flexibility.

[chrisl]

The Wahoo TICKR works well and is dual ANT+ and Bluetooth which gives great flexibility.

Thanks lcantey, this looks ideal if I'm understanding its capabilities correctly. Are you (or anyone else) able to clarify given my situation?

At the moment I have a Polar FT1 watch (basic HR watch using older Polar protocol) and a T31 coded chest strap. I have the C2 Polar receiver for the PM4. This works great and the Polar protocol allows the belt to 'talk' to the watch and the PM4 simultaneously. I used this for some time and was pleased with it. I'd still be using it now except that the PM5 doesn't support the Polar receiver, which is incredibly frustrating for the sake of a 3.5mm jack and some electronics to protect the investment made by customers.

I looked at replacing the chest strap with a Polar H7. When using a PM5 the belt would talk Bluetooth Smart to the PM5 and Polar protocol to the watch. When using a PM4 the original setup, with the Polar receiver, would continue to work. However, since both the PM4 and PM5 claim to support "ANT+", and since other kit I use in the gym explicitly supports ANT+, it would be nice to instead go for an ANT+ belt and a suitable watch, and do away with the Polar receiver.

This is where the minefield opens up. It turns out that what the PM4, PM5, Garmin and other manufacturers mean by "ANT+" are all subtly different. PM5 supports ANT+ FE-C (Fitness Eqipment - Controls). Not sure if PM4 supports this variant. Older Garmin watches support older ANT+. Newer Garmin watches support some newer variant of ANT+. The thisisant site is equally vague, saying things are "supported" without appropriate context. I've spent days researching this and am just going in circles trying to work out what the PM4 and PM5 actually support today (318 and 22 respectively).

All I want is either:

1. A budget heart rate watch and an ANT+ chest strap which will simultaneously let the PM4 or PM5 log my heart rate during workouts, OR
2. An ANT+ capable watch with wrist heart rate measurement which will let the PM4 or PM5 log my heart rate during workouts

c2scott has previously said that ANT+ can talk to multiple receivers (unlike Bluetooth Smart) which is perfect for the first scenario. For the second scenario the watch would be the source anyway.

The Wahoo TICKR looks interesting because it supports "ANT+ and Bluetooth 4.0 capabilities". But it's not clear whether it's the right flavour of ANT+ (the one that the PM4 and PM5 speak), and is Bluetooth 4.0 the same as (or encompasses) Bluetooth Smart? And I'd still have to buy an ANT+ capable watch, and I've not been able to find any. If I can find a suitable watch then it appears that the setup meets the needs of the first scenario, and if the TICKR supports Bluetooth Smart it means it will also be compatible with other equipment which has gone down that route rather than ANT+.

[Edit: I see the TICKR X can log workout data itself, possibly doing away with the need for the watch, and I'd have live data on the PM or gym equipment during a workout anyway]

Any suggestions welcome, and c2scott if you have any updates or can clarify the PM4 and PM5's capabilities as of current firmware, that would be much appreciated as it will help narrow things down.

Thanks,
Chris

[chrisl]

I think I've found the answer. The Garmin Forerunner 25 which includes an ANT+ chest strap, identical to the one C2 sells.

http://www.gadfit.com/garmin-forerunner ... ew-gadfit/

[Edit: now I'm more confused, this belt is compatible with the Forerunner 235 which we're told isn't compatible with the PM5. I'm going to call C2 tomorrow as this is doing my head in now]

[DJL]

I think I've found the answer. The Garmin Forerunner 25 which includes an ANT+ chest strap, identical to the one C2 sells.

http://www.gadfit.com/garmin-forerunner ... ew-gadfit/

[Edit: now I'm more confused, this belt is compatible with the Forerunner 235 which we're told isn't compatible with the PM5. I'm going to call C2 tomorrow as this is doing my head in now]

The 235 when on "heart-rate Broadcast" as a heart rate sensor will be picked up by the PM5, it just won't receive the fe+c data

[chrisl]

Cheers DJL, so a Garmin belt, like the type C2 sells, will be picked up by the PM5, PM4 and a Garmin 235 watch (acting a receiver for the belt to display HR), but a Garmin 235 acting as a HR monitor, via the wrist sensor, will connect with a PM5 but the PM5 won't receive the FE -C data? So what will the PM5 pick up from the watch? Will it get the heart rate?

[chrisl]

I spotted these at the Decathlon next to the gym

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/ant-coded-di ... 21463.html

ANT+ chest strap with replaceable battery, normally 28 GBP, currently on offer for 14 GBP. I bought one and it works perfectly with the PM4s. Testing tomorrow with PM5s but I expect it to work fine. A great bargain. Now I just need a simple HRM watch that talks ANT+ so I can use it elsewhere.

Chris

[DJL]

Cheers DJL, so a Garmin belt, like the type C2 sells, will be picked up by the PM5, PM4 and a Garmin 235 watch (acting a receiver for the belt to display HR), but a Garmin 235 acting as a HR monitor, via the wrist sensor, will connect with a PM5 but the PM5 won't receive the FE -C data? So what will the PM5 pick up from the watch? Will it get the heart rate?

Chris
The 235 with it's optical wrist sensor can broadcast to the PM5 directly or it will receive HR Data from any ANT+ HR device/belt, I use a scoche rhythm, not a big fan chest belts. So, PM5 can use/recieve the 235 HR data, but the 235 will not receive the FE-C data from the PM5, for some reasons just the older Garmin's and maybe the Fenix3-HR

[chrisl]

Hi DJL, thanks for the clarification. How are you finding the Scosche in use, in particular how it feels to wear and how it acts during the physical act of rowing? Have you got it on your upper arm? I read some reviews of it a few days ago and it looked pretty good. I bought a Garmin Vivosmart but returned it the following day. It had a loose clasp and gave very intermittent heart rate readings and felt annoying to wear higher up the wrist. The Geonaute belt is working well with the PM4 and PM5 and also the spin bikes at the gym, so a nice find for very low price. I don't mind heart rate straps, I don't notice them after a few mins.

I did consider a Garmin 235 but I don't really need a GPS enabled smart watch, let alone one as configurable as the 235, nice as it would be to play with (I've used Walkmeter on the iPhone for years now for outdoor tracking). I've found loads of cheaper heart rate watches but they all use proprietary analogue belts, so I may have to end up getting a standard Garmin 25 or something just to get the watch capability. I'm not a fan of Garmin Connect or sharing GPS data with such social networks, so was after something equivalent to the Polar FT1, but alas it seems there are no ANT+ watches to be had which don't also have all kinds of bells and whistles.