Computer rowing analysis software ?

[mmayzak]

Anyone using 'BoatCoach'? I was looking at getting the upgrades there... among everything it does it will give me the ability to export (thereby allowing me the option to use other analysis tools)?

Thoughts?

[Romper]

Just reading through this stuff from PKiszk....

After all of this data is extracted and presented, how does one then improve on their performance?

What are some examples of looking into specific areas in this data to find areas of weakness, etc.?

Romper

[Carl Watts]

Beware of just becoming a data junkie.

Yes I used the analysis in RowPro for a while and it was kind of cool to put numbers to your performance gains but really, IMO you simply don't need it unless your an Olympic rower.

The information stored on the LogCard is all you need, its not exact and only has one flaw they should have fixed by now and thats an accurate average spm for the row but apart from that you can still check your improvement from month to month even with the inaccurate spm rounding down up to 1spm all the time . Gains are obvious, you don't need pages of data to tell you that.

You simply have to row 5 or 6 days a week and keep pushing your limits and increase that pace. The likes of Apps and Rowpro are far more important in terms of long term motivation, if data does that for you then great but its not what makes me tick.

[gregsmith01748]

I see it a little bit differently than you do Carl. I've noticed over the past few years that I will make rapid progress for a while, then fall back a bit, then improve again. At the same time, I've been doing a lot of reading about exercise physiology and learning some things that were quite counter intuitive, at least for me.
Here are some of the things that I've learned:

1. It is useful to have a record of the training that I've done and how well it has gone. I agree that the log card can provide most of that data. I refer back to it all the time to understand where I am compared to past performance

2. Pushing too hard in endurance training is counter productive, and measuring and tracking something like HR or lactates and using that as feedback to adjust training intensity is very useful

3. Following the same training plan for long periods of time will result in a performance plateau. In order to make long term gains some kind of block periodization is needed to break through those tough spots. Having accurate records and a written training plan helps to identify when that happens and what you should change to fix it

So, I think that being data junkie is useful beyond the elites. I am not, nor do I aspire to be. But I think it is useful if you are trying to improve your competitiveness. I care a lot about whether I finish 6th or 10th in a head race, and if crunching numbers helps to achieve that, I'm all in. Besides, numbers are fun. I feel like I am conducting the worlds smallest and least important field research project in exercise physiology ever. But, Im learning a lot and it keeps me motivated. It works for me. It might not work for you.

[Romper]

thanks guys.

What could be some specific areas in data to zero in on and measure gaps when ERG rowing?

Romper

[AlexMarsden]

My experience on collecting the data is as follows:

Ergdata or a USB stick in the PM5 will give you data on your splits - but not stroke by stroke data.

To collect stroke by stroke data my research found 3 options:
1- RowPro (needs a computer connected by a USB cable and costs $ to get a subscription)
2-Boatcoach app (needs an android phone and I think you need to pay $ to get the additional add-ins to get the data you want) I am also unclear if you can export the data.
3-Painsled app on chrome (needs a computer connected by a USB cable - but is free)

In hoping to avoid paying more - I have focused on Painsled. It says its in a Beta version - but it does work.
Painsled collects the data and exports it as Comma Separated Values (CSV) for use in excel (which is all I know about) or has plugins for converting the data to other formats. -
The details on plugins is here https://github.com/charlotte-ip/painsled-plugins

I have made limited attempts to analyse the data - so would welcome advice on spreadsheets or macros to do that (I am an Excel jockey by trade).
Alex

[Livio Livius]

My experience on collecting the data is as follows:

Or Garmin FR210 with FIT files.

[GrantM]

Hi, I have just begun my love/hate relationship with my new C2D the last week so am new to this.
I have bought the full boatcoach package and with the pm5 it will link with bluetooth to an android device.

You can export to excel file with boatcoach.
It will dish out these data fields and email it to you in an excel file when you stop your workout.
Recording rate options every 1,2,5,10,20,30 seconds depending on your needs.
Even a 1/30sec option.

workoutType / intervalType / intervalCount / strokeRate / currentHeartRate / workTime / restTime / lastSplitTime / workDistance / lastSplitDistance / stroke500MPace / splitAvg500MPace / totalAvg500MPace / strokePower / splitAvgPower / totalAvgPower / strokeCaloricBurnRate / strokeCount / strokeLength / strokeDriveTime / strokeSpeed /trokeAverageForce / strokePeakForce / dragFactor / PowerCurve

I find the online and app itself for reviewing a bit unclear, probably just a noob and not used to it yet, but Im sure there must be some excel templates around to import the data into as well.

[AlexMarsden]

I notice that the front page of the logbook (when you have not logged in) has an image in the bottom left hand corner that shows a graph of an individual workout (hopefully shown below).
This detail isn't currently available on Ergdata - but it looks like it might be coming?? (though I do not that this is for a Skierg- not a rower).

[lcantey]

I notice that the front page of the logbook (when you have not logged in) has an image in the bottom left hand corner that shows a graph of an individual workout (hopefully shown below).
This detail isn't currently available on Ergdata - but it looks like it might be coming?? (though I do not that this is for a Skierg- not a rower).

They have indicated that it is coming fairly soon.

As soon as possible after the new Logbook has launched we’ll also be updating ErgData and the Concept2 Utility to take advantage of the new features, so you’ll be able to upload full split and interval data for your results, along with other information such as heart rate and strokes per minute.

Looking forward to it!

[Carl Watts]

The most useful thing there is the stroke count. I cannot wait for the likes of RowPro or Concept 2 to get that directly on the PM5, then I can get rid of the box of tricks I had to make up to detect the seat at the end of the drive.

From those results you can calculate the actual average rating which is 43.2 spm.

The worst discrepancy so far on the PM4 Logcard for me was an "18" spm row actually done at 19.1 spm during a 30 minute training session

With a drag factor of 67 that erg needs a serious clean.

[Romper]

The most useful thing there is the stroke count. I cannot wait for the likes of RowPro or Concept 2 to get that directly on the PM5, then I can get rid of the box of tricks I had to make up to detect the seat at the end of the drive.

From those results you can calculate the actual average rating which is 43.2 spm.

Hi Carl.

The PM5 already shows SPM, so I am curious how this SPM info from BoatCoach differs from the PM5 data.

Thoughts?


Romper

[Alissa]

I don't know if Paul Smith's "Erg Monitor" software is compatible with newer computers, but it did provide a ton of information. "Here's" a link to his website. Click the link of the left to see Erg Monitor displays. I haven't used (not a serious competitor), but NavHazard used to post lots of tech info and images using it. Before ordering, I'd talk w/ Paul about whether it's compatible with current tech...

HTH (somebody),

Alissa

[Bob S.]

I don't know if Paul Smith's "Erg Monitor" software is compatible with newer computers, but it did provide a ton of information. "Here's" a link to his website. Click the link of the left to see Erg Monitor displays. I haven't used (not a serious competitor), but NavHazard used to post lots of tech info and images using it. Before ordering, I'd talk w/ Paul about whether it's compatible with current tech...

HTH (somebody),

Alissa

Last time I looked into it, I got the impression that it was not compatible with anything later than Windows XP. It never did have a Mac version.

Too bad. It was great software and well ahead of its time initially. The one big lack was that it did not do HR.

[sander]

My experience on collecting the data is as follows:

Ergdata or a USB stick in the PM5 will give you data on your splits - but not stroke by stroke data.

To collect stroke by stroke data my research found 3 options:
1- RowPro (needs a computer connected by a USB cable and costs $ to get a subscription)
2-Boatcoach app (needs an android phone and I think you need to pay $ to get the additional add-ins to get the data you want) I am also unclear if you can export the data.
3-Painsled app on chrome (needs a computer connected by a USB cable - but is free)

In hoping to avoid paying more - I have focused on Painsled. It says its in a Beta version - but it does work.
Painsled collects the data and exports it as Comma Separated Values (CSV) for use in excel (which is all I know about) or has plugins for converting the data to other formats. -
The details on plugins is here https://github.com/charlotte-ip/painsled-plugins

I have made limited attempts to analyse the data - so would welcome advice on spreadsheets or macros to do that (I am an Excel jockey by trade).
Alex

PM me if you want an excel that seems to work with CSV outputs from Painsled. Example of a graph I made:


Yes, it's heavily inspired by the original "Dan Burpee" spreadsheet for RowPro.