Re: Damper setting

[hjs]

Dragfactor is a matter of air resistance, at higher altitude you need more airflow to get the same amount of air, so the fan should be higher (more open).
Min and max drag at altitude are both lower due to this.

So a question.....


Should we have separate setting and data?

When you stated .... "more airflow to get the same..."

We should place the damper setting appropriate to each of us? Essentially not the same setting.

Don,t know exactly what you ask. But in general people do not use the same drag. Use at first a low setting, but feel free to adjust on feel. You an erg fast and slow on any drag. On lower drag the drive of the stroke will be faster. On higher drag, the fan will slow down faster.

[Bob S.]

If the DF is the same, it should feel the same, whatever the altitude. The only difference is that damper settings will not be the same.

Bob S.

So the adjustment on the "damper setting" should equate to similar Drag Factors?

No. Here at 4000' I need to use a damper setting of 5 to get the same Drag Factor (about 115) that I would get at a damper setting of 3 or 4 at sea level. At 7500', you have to use an even higher damper setting to get the same Drag factor. But - with the DF at 115, it should feel the same at all three altitudes.

While I am new to the C2 rower....my wife has to comment....but DFs at our altitude do not correspond to her observations at sea level.

What do you mean by observations? If she observed that the DFs and damper settings didn't correspond, that is exactly what is to be expected. If the same DF feels different at the two different altitudes, that is not what should be expected. There should be no mechanical difference. However, physiologically, the air density will have a large effect on performance. I have found that even the 4000' difference makes a big difference in my own performance. My 2k time at sea level has been faster than my time here at home by at least 15 seconds. This has nothing to do with the machines. From the data I have seen, I would expect about a 5% loss in output (as shown by the wattages on the PM) at 4000' as compared to sea level.

Someone rowing at sea level and someone at our alt (7500')

1. Drag factors WILL DIFFER
2. Higher altitudes (should require an increase Damper settings) would make her/me to achieve the same workout.
3. When would we need to talk to C2 to see if the C2 CD would require adjustments?

I apologize in advance but my wife needs to track her efforts on the C2 for improving her times on the bike.

Mike

1. Not if you change the damper setting to adjust the DF - you want to make them the same.

2. Increase damper settings, yes. But just to get the DF to what you are used to. There is no way that you can get the same workout by just making machine adjustments, other than putting it in a hyperbaric chamber. Actually you probably have to do a harder workout at that altitude to get the same performance result. At least the heart and lungs have to work harder to make up for the lower air density.

3. Since it is a new machine, it will probably be years before there is enough dirt build up to cause a significant drop in the DF at any particular damper setting. In any case, there is no adjustment required, just a cleaning. The main item that might need adjustment would be a weakening of the return bungees, but that only shows up on very old, well-worn machines.

[COMike]

Thanks Bob!

You clarified this a bunch! I was assuming that the DF should be the same at a corresponding damper setting.

In actuality, from the examples you cited, if I were rowing at 7500' the damper setting for a specific drag factor would be X. If we were to row at sea level, to obtain the same drag factor we would have to look at changing the damper to achieve the same as what we were used to rowing at 7500'.

I appreciate the assist!

Mike

[hjs]

Thanks Bob!

You clarified this a bunch! I was assuming that the DF should be the same at a corresponding damper setting.

In actuality, from the examples you cited, if I were rowing at 7500' the damper setting for a specific drag factor would be X. If we were to row at sea level, to obtain the same drag factor we would have to look at changing the damper to achieve the same as what we were used to rowing at 7500'.

I appreciate the assist!

Mike

You are forgetting the most important. At height you will go a good deal slower, a lot less air to use.

And drag, hood rowers don,t care that muvh, they often hardly look at it. A good rower will be fast at any drg, just like a slow one will be slow on any drag. The biggest componant by far is the fitness of the rower, not the technique, not drag, nothing. How well is the erger. Drag is hardly an issue.

[COMike]

Good point! I'm still in the "technique" stage now trying my best to establish a solid foundation.

[hjs]

Good point! I'm still in the "technique" stage now trying my best to establish a solid foundation.

Important, but erging is mostly hard work and fitness.