Issue with the C2 ... slack on pull back ??

[Bagger]

Read some today and yesterday regarding drag factor and training. Viewed several vids on training on YouTube, etc. Interesting stuff. Not all were on the same/same track, but I get it.

I did what was suggested and looked at the drag on my C2. I found it is around 110ish. Altho, for some reason it varied to 113ish.

What if found confusing is this ... I can view the drag only on one screen. I guess it is a 'constant'? Anyway, I viewed it for 30 or so seconds and it read like 110 - 113. Then I went back to the main screen and "just rowed" for 20 minutes.

I did find today (reading the various sites) and viewing some vids, that if I watch my technic very, very carefully .... I can see that decreasing the speed on the recovery/catch ... SEEMS (?) ... to decrease the so-called 'slack' I'm talking about. Making the recovery sloooooowly and catch slow seems to help. But, I still have a foot or two of what I call 'low resistance' before I get some real resistance. And, the drive is still not all that powerful feeling in my legs. I can bike for 20 minutes and feel that in my legs, but not the rowing.

I'm going to work more on keeping my head in a neutral position, not reaching forward rounding my shoulders on the catch and see if this works.

I have to say .... I am used to more effort yields more resistance. When working out, lifting more weight gives more resistance. However, I also understand that lifting less weight slooooooower also yields more work, too.

I'm still experimenting here. Thanx for the help.

[Bob S.]

Making the recovery sloooooowly and catch slow seems to help. But, I still have a foot or two of what I call 'low resistance' before I get some real resistance. And, the drive is still not all that powerful feeling in my legs. I can bike for 20 minutes and feel that in my legs, but not the rowing.

Slow catch? A slow recovery is fine - you are sneaking up on the catch. But the catch should be done with a sudden hard leg drive. One technique is to tie a rope to the handle so that it can't move, then drive with the legs and you should be lifted right up off the seat.

I have to say .... I am used to more effort yields more resistance. When working out, lifting more weight gives more resistance. However, I also understand that lifting less weight slooooooower also yields more work, too.

Pulling the erg (or oar) handle is not like lifting a weight. The resistance in weight lifting depends on the amount of weight, not the timing. The resistance in rowing depends on how fast the handle moves. The drive should be hard and fast.

Bob S.

[jamesg]

As Bob says, Pulling the handle is not like lifting a weight: we're accelerating a flywheel, so the resistance we feel is dynamic, not static. So what you've seen as to catch slack is normal.

The ways to overcome this "problem" are:
Pull fast; pull long.

Long means you have to get your hands near the chainguard, then take the catch. It looks like this:
http://www.britishrowing.org/taking-par ... ing-stroke
Photo 1 is the catch position.

The slower recovery helps, and is essential anyway, because the flywheel then has more time to slow down; and if it's spinning slower, it takes us less distance to catch up with it. Newton rules, on the erg, like it or not.

The drag to set is a delicate balance: not so low that we can't catch up with the flywheel, not so high that the pull becomes slow and clumsy or worse.

[Citroen]

I did what was suggested and looked at the drag on my C2. I found it is around 110ish. Altho, for some reason it varied to 113ish.

What if found confusing is this ... I can view the drag only on one screen. I guess it is a 'constant'? Anyway, I viewed it for 30 or so seconds and it read like 110 - 113. Then I went back to the main screen and "just rowed" for 20 minutes.

Variations in drag factor (DF) are a symptom of your rowing technique, if you don't catch the flywheel and drive hard the DF will vary in the way you've found.

The PM3/4 can detect the start of a new stroke from the tacho signal. It calcuates DF on every stroke it then uses that factor in the calculation of watts. All the other numbers (distance, pace, calories) are calculated from the measured watts. It's running a real-time clock so that gives it everything it needs to count "virtual" metres rowed.

[carlb]

You can look at the UK site Faults and Corrections
http://concept2.co.uk/training/faults_corrections
http://concept2.co.uk/training/faults_corrections_video

I would think Slide Shooting would result in feeling less pull at the start.

I think your feelings are normal. A 2:30 pace is not working very hard so it should feel easy and not fatigue your legs, but will get your HR up. I'm not saying you should be pulling harder. Take the time to increase your effort slowly and give your body time to adapt. It more then just legs, its arms, hips and back too. Plus technique and timing. As you put in more meters (like 100k to 200k) you will get stronger and faster without really trying to pull harder. Try to get to 25 minutes 5 days/week for 5 weeks and see how you feel.

You sound like you are reading and following the normal advice well for setup and SPM. Keep rowing!

[Bagger]

Guys ... I really appreciate your help. Some of the posts are not all that clear, but I continue to row and watch my technic and read.

There are many vids Online that I have watched. And, thanx for the links, too. All this will be helpful

Much of what was said on page 2 makes sense. I'll continue to work on stuff and post my results.

[enrage]

Guys ... I really appreciate your help. Some of the posts are not all that clear, but I continue to row and watch my technic and read.

There are many vids Online that I have watched. And, thanx for the links, too. All this will be helpful

Much of what was said on page 2 makes sense. I'll continue to work on stuff and post my results.

I had the same trouble when i first purchased my rower. I had never rowed before and the problem was my technique. It's a lot better than what it was when I first started.
Learning to row with proper technique is much like learning to swing a golf club. It takes practice.

[Bagger]

I had the same trouble when i first purchased my rower. I had never rowed before and the problem was my technique. It's a lot better than what it was when I first started.
Learning to row with proper technique is much like learning to swing a golf club. It takes practice.

I fully understand the reference to golf. I've been working on my short game for a couple years including putting.

The more I practice, the better I get. I'm cerftainly not a great golfer, but having a couple birdies and 2 - 3 pars per l9 seems like I've made a dent in my game.

Practicing with any sport .... bowling, darts, circuit weight training, basketball, yada, yada ... all involve practice and proper technic.

[SaBhava]

Hi Bagger,
I am with you on the slack issue! I went to a fitness store yesterday had the same sensation testing the Model D. They also had a First Degree Fluid Rower 520 standing beside the Model D which I did for strokes on: no slack at the beginning of the catch whatsoever!

I still bought the Model D mostly based on my trust that such a large and learned community of Pro-rowers can't be wrong and that the slack must be my fault (BTW, the designers Fluid Rower 520 seem to have spent a lot of time at laundromats - their rower looks and sounds like a washing machine and is as versatile as one, too).

After having rowed yesterday evening and today morning I noticed that I do get the hang of it following the good advice of this post and noticed - as you did - that I can reduce the slack by "exploding" at the beginning of the catch and sneaking up on it by doing a slow recovery.

Having done indoor rowing for the past three years on a Kettler Coach LS (40 min of rowing/ 3 times a week) I expected to be in better shape but an erg from Concept2 is another league. In my age range (30-39) my time for 500 and 2000m is only around the 25th percentile.

It is great fun, though, to see that progress is fairly easy to achieve and that working out on the Concept2 is not rocket science. This morning was already a lot better than yesterday.

Cheers,
SaBhava

[Bagger]

Hi Bagger,
I am with you on the slack issue! I went to a fitness store yesterday had the same sensation testing the Model D. They also had a First Degree Fluid Rower 520 standing beside the Model D which I did for strokes on: no slack at the beginning of the catch whatsoever!

I still bought the Model D mostly based on my trust that such a large and learned community of Pro-rowers can't be wrong and that the slack must be my fault (BTW, the designers Fluid Rower 520 seem to have spent a lot of time at laundromats - their rower looks and sounds like a washing machine and is as versatile as one, too).

After having rowed yesterday evening and today morning I noticed that I do get the hang of it following the good advice of this post and noticed - as you did - that I can reduce the slack by "exploding" at the beginning of the catch and sneaking up on it by doing a slow recovery.

Having done indoor rowing for the past three years on a Kettler Coach LS (40 min of rowing/ 3 times a week) I expected to be in better shape but an erg from Concept2 is another league. In my age range (30-39) my time for 500 and 2000m is only around the 25th percentile.

It is great fun, though, to see that progress is fairly easy to achieve and that working out on the Concept2 is not rocket science. This morning was already a lot better than yesterday.

Cheers,
SaBhava

Thanx for the post, man. I agree with you regarding the learning curve.

I spent part of the day Online looking at more vids of the C2 rowing technic. Unfortunately, the weather is grand here in New England and I'm playing golf alot, plus mountain biking and riding one of the motorcycles. This is both good and bad. Bad in that I don't have crappy weather to work on my rowing technic .... but, good that I can work on my short game.

I'm certain that I'll get better at the rowing deal.

Cheers, too.

[Ultra54]

I am on my second day after buying a new model D and being a new rower I see the importance of technique. Keep up the good advice.

[enrage]

I am on my second day after buying a new model D and being a new rower I see the importance of technique. Keep up the good advice.

continue to stretch and breathe.

[Ultra54]

continue to stretch and breathe.

Care to elaborate ? Maybe this isn't the thread but I couldn't private message you. For the record, I'm a noobie who recognized after reading about the C2 in a motocross article. I can see a long loving relationship with my rower.

[Bob S.]

continue to stretch and breathe.

Maybe this isn't the thread but I couldn't private message you.

I think that you cannot send a PM after just one message. Now that you have sent second one, the PM feature should work.

Bob S.

[Ultra54]

Hmmm, I still can't message but no big deal, I just didn't want to dilute this thread. Now that I have diluted it I might as well add my thanks for the private response,although a little frustrating not to be able to thank in private. I have a question pertaining to technique in general. One thing is certain, I don't own a row boat nor do I have any interest in rowing on the water. That being the case, I recognize that the act of rowing is an awesome form of excercise that offers a large bang for the buck in terms of overall workout in a busy persons life. So the question is, how important is technique for getting the most out of your time spent excercising on the C2? I'm not talking about thrashing around on the thing like a fish out of water here but lets say your not rowing absolutely perfectly. I have less dedicated family members using the rower too so my concern is more for them as I welcome the challenge of perfecting my technique.