Optimizing my Training: Advice wanted

[RowtheRockies]

My training week consists of 4 erg sessions and two running sessions as follows:

Monday: 8 Mile Run, effort comparable to UT1 Band

Tuesday: 6X500M 2K Pace 1:00 Recovery or 4X1000 5K pace 1:30 Recovery

Wednesday 8-10K Erg at UT1

Thursday: 15 minute warm up run, 35 minutes of 400M or 200M repeats, 10 minute cool down

Friday: 60 minutes UT2 pace on erg

Saturday: Rest

Sunday: 40 minute UT1 Pace.

Without increasing the number of erg sessions per week, I would like to maximize my training for performance in the 2K. My 2K PB is 7:27 rowed approximately 6 weeks ago, my 5K PB is 19:16 rowed about one week ago.

My own assessment is that my aerobic engine is stronger than my strenght and power from years of running. My questions are:

1) Should I forget about doing the 6X500 and 4X1000 sessions for now and replace with 30' r20 work done at a hard effort to increase the power of my stroke?

2) Anything else you would recomend I change in my training?

Thanks in Advance,

Rich

[jjpisano]

Before anything, realize you're rowing in Colorado. What elevation are you at? Take that into consideration when you find that you can't quite hit the paces everybody on this forum wants you to hit.

Check out the "physics of rowing" web site. It'll give you some ideas about your handicap. Then start from there.

Regarding specifics, the best way to row faster is to train by rowing. If you want to limit your rowing to 4 sessions per week then make sure to put in as many good quality meters as possible during those 4 sessions.

Sprints are good but they are incredibly physically and psychologically stressful, so I tend to avoid sprints. They hurt alot and they need generally more recovery time from them. There are, however, many great rowers who advocate doing them year around. I am just a guy who has hung around the forum for around 5 years and I only did 15 sprint sessions last year over the last 7 weeks of preparation for CRASH-B's. If you use one of your 4 sessions doing sprints, you will be restricting your volume of meters.

If you are going to restrict your rowing to 4 sessions per week, go for as much uninterupted anaerobic threshold work as can be physically tolerated. That's my humble opinion. Problem is now to define that level of intensity. Lets say 7:27 is your present 100% effort. That's a 1:51.7 pace which translates to a wattage of around 250. Your uninterupted work should be performed at 75% to 80% of 250w, which is 187.5w to 200w.

Just my opinion, hope it helps.

[jamesg]

There's something odd. Could be technique. An indicator might be the amount of work per stroke. Divide your normal UT1 Watt level by rating; if at your age the ratio is less than 10, you're probably pulling short and so will have trouble when you want to go really fast.

I say odd because your 5k is much better than I've ever done (but could be due to my laziness), but your 2k is a lot slower than I did at age 63 - 7:10 @ 27, which is not particularly fast anyway. I'm 188x90kg.

However doing good 2ks as well as superlative technique (otherwise you do a lot of unproductive work) requires specific preparation: a year or two's long slow work for technique, tendon hardening and CV using HR as control plus a couple of months where you also inject some short sharp stuff. If you don't do this injection, no harm, 2ks are strictly for masochists and you'll be fit anyway.

On the erg I think CV - aerobic engine - will only in very rare cases be "larger" than the demand from all the muscles we use in rowing. This is why we rate low in training - to avoid overloading the CV system and so keep going for as long as we like. If you have this impression, this too could indicate a technique problem - you're not using all your rowing muscles.

[RowtheRockies]

jjpisano, Jagesg,

Thanks for the advice. I do in fact row at 7000 ft. and am sure I could better my times by going to sea level. I think for now I will take the advice of rowing uniterupted sessions at 75-80% of 2K wattage 4 days a week. Once the running season is over, in September, I will increase rows to 6 per week and give the running a rest for the winter so I can concentrate on the rowing comp that is held in January in Denver. Once I do this I can add in some interval training.

[jjpisano]

Rowtherockies:

I must warn you that you may get bored doing the same intensity work day in day out. It takes a special breed to have perseverence in face of the same work over long periods of time. If you are going to get bored and then quit because it is boring then it's probably better to keep variety.

That being said you can keep variety even within the framework of one type of workout. I'm basically at present just doing uninterupted anaerobic threshold work but every day it's slightly different with progression built into my schedule.

Yesterday I did 30 minutes with 10 minute warmup and 20 minutes @ 222w & @ 20 s/m. Today I did 31 miniutes with 10 minute warmup and 21 minutes at 222w & @ 20 s/m. Tommorrow I'll do 32 minutes with 10 minute warmup and 22 minutes @ 222w & @ 20 s/m.
I'll do this kind of progression all the way up to a 50 minute workout including the 10 minute warmup. Then I'll back down on the time, but increase the intensity next time to 228w.

I hardly ever do the the same workout twice despite the general type is pretty much the same, i.e. uninterupted AT work.

[RowtheRockies]

jjpisano,

Thanks. I'm not one to get bored easily, so I am not worried about that. What % of your 2k Watts is 222? i.e what intensity are you doing this at? I really like the idea of doing this gradual progression.

Rich

[jjpisano]

Rowtherockies:

I did a 320w 2k (6:52) at CRASH-B's in February. So I guess it's at 222/320 or about 69%. However, I'm thinking about where I'm headed.

Next years goal is a 350w 2k. To do that I have to master uninterupted work at around 264w. To do a 320w 2k effort, I was doing my uninterupted AT work at 240w & @ 23 s/m. So I backed off after hitting my peak. ( I just can't be at peak all year around). I went back down to 210w and I have just started climbing levels of intensity and hopefully I'll be heading back through my old peak to 264 watts.

But I sort of think of this month's 2k test pace goal as my present 100% effort. I'm hoping to do a 296w 2k (around a 7:04 or so) at the end of this cycle so 222/296 is 75% of my present 100% effort.

When one has long time horizons, there's no need to do a personal best 2k every month. I'm happy with a low stress tune up 2k this month. It would be awesome if I could do a 350w 2k (6:40) next February. I'm trying not to overstress myself on the way there and I'm trying to lay down a good substantial base under my peak.

[RowtheRockies]

Jim,

Thanks for sharing your workouts. I think I will give it a shot and start with a 2K TT this weekend to set a baseline for starting my progression then start at 75%

Another question: If I am going to do my progressions at 20SPM, should my TT be done at 20SPM rather than the 28 - 30 I usually do in order to keep it apples to apples. Seems that if I do the TT at 30SPM but the progressions at 20SPM at 75% of 2kWatts that the effort required would be more than 75%?

Sorry for all the question.

Rich

[jjpisano]

RowtheRockies:

I've been skirting the issue of stroke rate because that's a very arguable point. Regarding your specific question about your time trial, I think you should figure out what your "natural" 2k 100% effort stroke rate is. What stroke rate feels right to you when you're giving your all over 2k.

A theoretical example of your considerations could look like this:

Say the stroke rate for your 100% effort ends up at 29 s/m and say you come in at 250w. Then your watts/spm (or stroke power index - SPI) ends up being a 250/29 or 8.62.

I'm a big advocate of using a constant SPI in my training. If you notice I sign my notes Jim SWCSPI Pisano because I advocate strapless training, watching watts and constant SPI training.

So after you figure out the intensity of your uninterupted AT work, you figure out the stroke rate by doing some math like this:

75% of 250w is 187.5w. 187.5w with an SPI of 8.62 gives a stroke rate of
21.75 or rounded to 22 s/m.

Problem is that in our theoretical example you already know you can do a 250w 2k effort at 29 s/m. Perhaps you want to set your sights on 275w @ your "natural" 29 s/m stroke rate. That means your goal 2k SPI is 275w/29 s/m or 9.48. So training could be done at this slightly higher SPI.

The kind of stroke that'll bring you in at 275w is significantly more powerful than the one that'll bring you in at 250w, so you could start incorporating that type of stroke into your training.

When you're ready to do a 275w 2k effort, you should be able to do more than 20 minutes of uninterupted work at 75% of 275w or 206w. Your stroke rate would be 206w/9.48SPI, which is 21.73 which is rounded to 22 s/m.

Problem is you want to end there at being able to do over 20 minutes of uninterupted work at 206w and @ 22 s/m. You don't want to start there. You know that you're probably capable, in our theoretical example, of doing 187.5w @ 22 s/m but to get to 206w @ 22 s/m, you need a more powerful stroke so......

You could back off on your intensity while you work on your more powerful stroke... say to 176w and using your goal 2k SPI as your guide (i.e. 9.48),
use a stroke rate of 176w/9.48SPI or 18.57 rounded to 19 s/m.

Some points of issue - your "natural" 2k stroke rate may not be the right stroke rate. 29 s/m may be slightly low but it may be OK because after all
you are rowing at 7000 feet.

Paul Smith advocates training at 10 meters per stroke. You could possibly consider whatever that stroke rate works out to be for your training. I have no proof that the constant SPI idea is sound.

Good luck in reaching your goals.

[RowtheRockies]

Jim,

Thanks for all your input. I am going to give this approach a shot and see how it works for me. Will start with 10M warm up, 20 minutes at 75% of 2K SPI as determined by a TT this weekend. I will then bump up each session by 1 minute until I reach 40 minutes of work. Retest and start over. I'll let you know how it goes for me.

Rich

[jjpisano]

Rowtherockies:

Good luck. I'd like to hear about your progress, so please report back.

Thanks.

[RowtheRockies]

jjpisano,


I did a 2K test on Sunday but at r20 not unrestricted because I decided I wanted to do apples to apples for my 80% work. Long story short, I pulled as hard as I could on each one and definetely maxed it out. The interesting this is that breathing wise, I didn't feel like I was maxed out but there is no way I could have phsically pulled any harder so that tells me low rate stuff is what I need to work on to get my power up.

Also, my time of 7:35 at r20 is only 8 seconds off my unrestricted time of 7:27. So I'm thinking that with a full cycle of going from 20 minutes to 40 at 80% and I should be able to shave a big chunk off my unrestricted 2K. I hope at least.

Rich

[jjpisano]

Rich:

Doing a 2k @ r20 and ending only 8 seconds back from your personal best is impressive.

I never have done a 2k max effort at 20 s/m. I can imagine it would be incredibly hard on the muscles.

The low rate stuff with high watts/stroke rate ratio can be hard, not only on the muscles, but also the tendons, joints and bones too. From your other post, it looks like your watts were around 235 with a stroke rate of 20. Your SPI was a 11.75 for the 2k. I train now with a SPI of around 11. The intensity of each stroke is quite strenuous.

I like how your thinking in watts because watts are easy to use and easy to change workout intensities in a proportional manner. 500m pace will always be there to talk about but to figure out intensities using watts is, in my opinion, very helpful.

Keep up the good work.

[jjpisano]

Last months Rowing News magazine had a nice article by Ed McNeely about interval training.

One little detail he wrote got me to thinking about my own training. In the discussion about using heart rate monitoring, he said that if heart rate continues to climb during the workout then it's likely that the training is being done above anaerobic threshold.

It seems that all my workouts are like this. I just detailed in another thread that I did my workout where my heart rate climbed through the 160's and went through 170 and maxed out at 178.

The intervals I've been doing have been something like this:

5 minutes on, 1 minute off, 4 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 5 on, 1 off, 4 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off, 1 on.

I haven't worn a heart rate monitor but I knew the last time I did wear a heart rate monitor it took me 5:30 to get my heart rate to 161. So I thought that the longest interval should be shorter than this amount of time.

After two weeks of interval workouts like this, as detailed in another thread, I did uninterupted work again at the goal intensity. This time I hit 161 bpm after 7:30 rather than after 5:30. Last time I hit max of 177 bpm after 17 minutes and this time I was at 175 after 17 minutes and I hit my max of 178 after 20 minutes. These are subtle differences which may be explained by circumstances beyond the effects of training.

Nevertheless, questions arise: I'm wondering if increasing time doing intervals will be as beneficial as increasing time doing uninterupted work.
I can do intervals without fail and actually did a few days where I did 30 to 40 minutes at the desired intensity but I can barely do 20 minutes of uninterupted work at the desired intensity.

So a basic question is: what do my fellow forumites think? Do you think 40 minutes of interval work is as good as 20 minutes of uninterupted work at the same intensity? With intervals I miss the extreme levels of heart rate but I can perform more volume of the work.

Intervals are so much less stressful. It is very tempting to convert to more intervals. The one major problem with it is that interval workouts are more time consuming. I might have to sacrifice a little more sleep.

[johnlvs2run]

Do you think 40 minutes of interval work is as good as 20 minutes of uninterupted work at the same intensity? With intervals I miss the extreme levels of heart rate but I can perform more volume of the work.

I think having both is the best, and avoiding the extreme levels of heart rate either way.