Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » January 15th, 2006, 6:23 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Guy_W @ Jan 12 2006, 06:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>1. Off season: Post the season’s Goal Event, what sort of guidelines can be recommended for transition to and content of the off-season? Do I drop my Level 1 target pace by, say, 4 seconds immediately? Go on vacation and do nothing for 3 months? Gradually wind down intensity and number of workouts etc? My thoughts: decide what level of fitness I want/need to start training again come August / September, then work out an overall level of “exercise” to basically get me physically and psychologically hungry/keen and motivated to get stuck in again.[right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Well, this question will require more time for me to do it complete justice. I’ll try to revisit it more thoroughly as we get to the end of the current indoor season (i.e., CRASH-Bs for me). But the general idea behind off-season training is to get enough physical and psychological rest to be able to come back next season with a renewed sense of purpose, but at the same time to retain enough baseline fitness to be able to build on this year’s training and not simply recover lost ground next year. I reduce overall volume by something like 25-30% and intensity by something like 10% (Watts). I do more cross-training in the off-season (I like to cycle outdoors) and experiment with alternate workouts on the erg. I go back and forth on keeping detailed training records or not and having specific goals for workouts or not. For me, the grass is always greener. If I try training without goals and don’t keep records, I lose motivation to perform the work. If I do have goals (even modest ones), the psychological burden of always having to perform becomes wearing. But I always stay active and I always keep a sense of what shape I’m in currently and where I need to be at the start of the next training cycle.<br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>2. Fast finish: The overall plan is founded upon slow gradual improvements although there is acknowledgement of scope/possibility of pushing harder in the last 6-8 weeks (like the last 300m of a 2k). Are there any views, experience, advice and comments upon the best approach / pitfalls to avoid in this last 6-8 week period? [a relevant question for me now:)] </td></tr></table> <br />Congratulations! It sounds like you’re saying “Woo-hoo! I’m even faster than I thought I would be!” My experience the past couple years has been “Dang! I’m not going to be as fast as I’d hoped I’d be.” My general suggestion is to stick to the basic schedule/format you’ve been using so far, but if the opportunity exists to get faster than planned on some of the key (L1-L2) workouts during the final weeks, then go for it. I try to strike a balance between making my last attempt at a particular workout (e.g., 4 x 1K) the fastest I can possibly perform for the year, and making sure I have a positive experience. It would be okay to miss my final target by a little bit as long as I knew I had performed well overall and had a sense that my overall physiological capacity was about as good as its going to get. I don’t want to crash and burn (e.g., give up halfway through my second 1K). This is more for psychological reasons than anything else. Whatever I do in the last week or two before my most important race, I want to come away with a sense of confidence and to have proven to myself I have the necessary fitness to perform well. The later I get into a season, the less likely I am to really push the pace (that is, really enter the discomfort zone) for an endurance (long L3 or L4) workout. Early in the season I’m more like to be soft on my L1 & L2 goals but firmer on my endurance goals. I shift priorities in the second half and during the last couple weeks before the final race I don’t feel guilty about not increasing or even slightly decreasing the pace for an endurance session, or even stopping a session a little early if I’m feeling particularly beat. I want to prioritize being mentally and physically fresh for the interval sessions. Most years I’ve been able to nail a good 4 x 1K leading into my final race, but one year I was struggling a bit and let myself try a couple extra times in place of other workouts. A couple times I warmed up and did the first piece but I knew I just wasn’t mentally ready for the whole workout (even though there was plenty of evidence I was ready physically), so I finished off with some Level 4 and came back a couple days later to try again. I think I got it on the third try.<br /><br />Simply stated, my view is that you’re not going to make huge physiological gains in the last couple weeks, but be sure to set the right psychological tone. That can make or break the season and determine how much your race benefits from all the hard physical work you’ve put in.<br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>3. Mid season breaks: Thoughts/experiences regarding interruptions to training schedules, work pressures, illness, vacations etc. How to assess appropriate level /intensity to return? [less relevant now but still ...] </td></tr></table> <br />Again, I can give more of my thoughts in the future. When my training is interrupted for more than a few days, I go through several of my core workouts using a basic diagnostic format that has worked pretty well for me. Workouts like 8 x 500m or 15 x 3’ have a long history with me. I’ll go into them sort of by feel, doing a thorough warm-up and then doing each piece at what seems to be a challenging but realistic intensity, and based on how I feel at that point, decide whether to decrease, increase, or stay the same. Or I take an endurance session like 60’ L4 or 20K L3 and ease into it one segment (e.g., 10’ or 2K) at a time – again, determining as I go along whether to go faster, slower, or keep cruising at the same pace. At the end of these sessions I figure the average pace and compare it to past weeks in my training to see how I did on other workouts at that time. My general experience is that for every <b>one</b> week my training is interrupted from my normal routine, my progress drops back about <b>three</b> weeks. Note that I’m not talking about <i>no training</i> , I’m talking about irregular or reduced training. But probably most people who don’t train as much as I do to begin with won’t experience quite such a drastic decline (I sort of look at it as, the higher up the mountain you’ve climbed, the farther you have to fall).<br /><br />Happy training, especially those gearing up for Jan-Feb races!<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br /><br /><br />

[old] thomgreen · Post by **[old] thomgreen** » January 17th, 2006, 11:04 am

Mike,<br />Thank you for making your plan available to the rowing community. I just did my first Level 4 style work out a couple days ago and was amazed at how fast it felt like the time went. <br /><br />Question: did you ever post the new rate and split tables?<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />Thom

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » January 17th, 2006, 1:27 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 15 2006, 02:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My general experience is that for every <b>one</b> week my training is interrupted from my normal routine, my progress drops back about <b>three</b> weeks. Note that I’m not talking about <i>no training</i> , I’m talking about irregular or reduced training. But probably most people who don’t train as much as I do to begin with won’t experience quite such a drastic decline (I sort of look at it as, the higher up the mountain you’ve climbed, the farther you have to fall). <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I have found the same thing to be the case, unfortunately. Perhaps 10 years ago it was not the case for me, but I have unintentionally found out that it takes weeks to get back to where I left off. From reading various UK diaries, others have found the same to be true, even those that ran, biked, and/or lifted weights while away from the erg, which supports the idea of being sport specific if you want to make improvements in a specific activity.

[old] arakawa · Post by **[old] arakawa** » January 17th, 2006, 1:34 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 15 2006, 02:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My general experience is that for every <b>one</b> week my training is interrupted from my normal routine, my progress drops back about <b>three</b> weeks. Note that I’m not talking about <i>no training</i> , I’m talking about irregular or reduced training. But probably most people who don’t train as much as I do to begin with won’t experience quite such a drastic decline (I sort of look at it as, the higher up the mountain you’ve climbed, the farther you have to fall).[right] </td></tr></table><br />My piano instructor used to say that, for every day of practice I skipped, I'd lose a week of progress.

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » January 17th, 2006, 4:43 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(thomgreen @ Jan 17 2006, 11:04 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Question: did you ever post the new rate and split tables? </td></tr></table><br />Back on page 14, post #204 (Nov. 11). I'm moving it here.<br />[attachmentid=125]<br />Also, just for the heck of it, in case anyone actually cares, here is a list of resources I have consulted over the past several years when formulating my thoughts on <b>interval training</b> . At some point I’ll get around to compiling lists of resources for other training-related topics. <br />[attachmentid=126]<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br />

[old] dougsurf · Post by **[old] dougsurf** » January 17th, 2006, 5:22 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Jan 17 2006, 10:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 15 2006, 02:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My general experience is that for every <b>one</b> week my training is interrupted from my normal routine, my progress drops back about <b>three</b> weeks. Note that I’m not talking about <i>no training</i> , I’m talking about irregular or reduced training. But probably most people who don’t train as much as I do to begin with won’t experience quite such a drastic decline (I sort of look at it as, the higher up the mountain you’ve climbed, the farther you have to fall). <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I have found the same thing to be the case, unfortunately. Perhaps 10 years ago it was not the case for me, but I have unintentionally found out that it takes weeks to get back to where I left off. From reading various UK diaries, others have found the same to be true, even those that ran, biked, and/or lifted weights while away from the erg, which supports the idea of being sport specific if you want to make improvements in a specific activity. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />My understanding, with the caviott that everyone is different, is that it's a lot more complicated than a simple ratio of 1:3. My general understanding is that that's a good overall ratio for long term detraining effects, eg 1month:3months, but I'm not sure about a time as short as one week. This would kind of fly in the face of most tapering theories, but I know Mike doesn't support tapering. Anyway I think most folks believe little is suffered at all, up to about a week. Not to say you can take every other week off. "Peak Performance" just had a decent article on detraining. They broke up the effects into four components, each with different detraining rates: Cardio-Resp detraining, metabolic detraining, muscular detraining, and hormonal detraining. Closer to home, i think the common belief is that aerobic, steady state training and detraining take longer than the anaerobic end. Unfortunately, according to PP, its the hard earned lactate threshold training that can diminish over just a few days. Their bottom line is that a change in activity (cross-training) is far better than pure rest. In any case, it'd be good to have a thorough discussion of it sometime.

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 21st, 2006, 3:38 pm

Awesome workout today, a week or so before my first venue race ... validation for me that I can go sub 7:20 and stay on plan ... the WP that is!<br /><br /> <br /><br /><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'><b>LEVEL 1 - 8 x 500M</b></span></span><br /><br />Shot for average of 1:49.55 (1:49.9, 1:49.8, etc.).<br /><br />Actual: <b>1:49.1</b><br /><br />All were negative splits except one, where I was banging slides and had to get back in rhythm ... that very much sucked! All intervals, even the banging slides interval, were better than target pace.<br /><br />Bested my last 8 x 500M from 12DEC05 by -1.45 seconds. Lots of gas left in the tank, but I controlled myself and stayed with a "baby steps" approach. First time under 1:50.0 average for this workout as well.<br /><br />Thanks Mike!<br /><br />

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » January 21st, 2006, 3:58 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 07:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Awesome workout today, a week or so before my first venue race ... validation for me that I can go sub 7:20 and stay on plan ... the WP that is!<br /><br /> <br /><br /><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'><b>LEVEL 1 - 8 x 500M</b></span></span><br /><br />Shot for average of 1:49.55 (1:49.9, 1:49.8, etc.).<br /><br />Actual: <b>1:49.1</b><br /><br />All were negative splits except one, where I was banging slides and had to get back in rhythm ... that very much sucked! All intervals, even the banging slides interval, were better than target pace.<br /><br />Bested my last 8 x 500M from 12DEC05 by -1.45 seconds. Lots of gas left in the tank, but I controlled myself and stayed with a "baby steps" approach. First time under 1:50.0 average for this workout as well.<br /><br />Thanks Mike!<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Good job Mark! <br /><br />I didn't know you were using slides. Do you find that you have to adjust the ref pace or stroke rate when doing L4 compared to off slides? Also, do you find them easier on your back and shoulders?<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Francois

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 21st, 2006, 4:14 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Jan 21 2006, 03:58 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 07:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Awesome workout today, a week or so before my first venue race ... validation for me that I can go sub 7:20 and stay on plan ... the WP that is!<br /><br /> <br /><br /><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'><b>LEVEL 1 - 8 x 500M</b></span></span><br /><br />Shot for average of 1:49.55 (1:49.9, 1:49.8, etc.).<br /><br />Actual: <b>1:49.1</b><br /><br />All were negative splits except one, where I was banging slides and had to get back in rhythm ... that very much sucked! All intervals, even the banging slides interval, were better than target pace.<br /><br />Bested my last 8 x 500M from 12DEC05 by -1.45 seconds. Lots of gas left in the tank, but I controlled myself and stayed with a "baby steps" approach. First time under 1:50.0 average for this workout as well.<br /><br />Thanks Mike!<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Good job Mark! <br /><br />I didn't know you were using slides. Do you find that you have to adjust the ref pace or stroke rate when doing L4 compared to off slides? Also, do you find them easier on your back and shoulders?<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Francois <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Francois:<br /><br />I find no difference in pace with or without slides. L4 workouts are no problem with them.<br /><br />I do not use them when intentionally going for a PB or racing online, just because the banging, if you have some poor strokes, can waste a whole bunch of energy (I can have a problem with them when doing a racing start for a short piece). Might just be my poor beginners stroke!<br /><br />I do find them <b>much </b>easier on the back ... don't really have a feel for any difference with the shoulders.<br /><br />-- Mark

[old] tennstrike · Post by **[old] tennstrike** » January 21st, 2006, 7:10 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 02:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Awesome workout today, a week or so before my first venue race ... validation for me that I can go sub 7:20 and stay on plan ... the WP that is!<br /><br /> <br /><br /><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'><b>LEVEL 1 - 8 x 500M</b></span></span><br /><br />Shot for average of 1:49.55 (1:49.9, 1:49.8, etc.).<br /><br />Actual: <b>1:49.1</b><br /><br />All were negative splits except one, where I was banging slides and had to get back in rhythm ... that very much sucked! All intervals, even the banging slides interval, were better than target pace.<br /><br />Bested my last 8 x 500M from 12DEC05 by -1.45 seconds. Lots of gas left in the tank, but I controlled myself and stayed with a "baby steps" approach. First time under 1:50.0 average for this workout as well.<br /><br />Thanks Mike!<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Arial'>Great workout Mark! </span></span></span><br />Hadn't seen any posts from you in a while and wondered if you made your high altitude vacation and how you found the rowing if you had.<br /><br />Jeff

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 21st, 2006, 7:29 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(tennstrike @ Jan 21 2006, 07:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 02:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Awesome workout today, a week or so before my first venue race ... validation for me that I can go sub 7:20 and stay on plan ... the WP that is!<br /><br /> <br /><br /><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'><b>LEVEL 1 - 8 x 500M</b></span></span><br /><br />Shot for average of 1:49.55 (1:49.9, 1:49.8, etc.).<br /><br />Actual: <b>1:49.1</b><br /><br />All were negative splits except one, where I was banging slides and had to get back in rhythm ... that very much sucked! All intervals, even the banging slides interval, were better than target pace.<br /><br />Bested my last 8 x 500M from 12DEC05 by -1.45 seconds. Lots of gas left in the tank, but I controlled myself and stayed with a "baby steps" approach. First time under 1:50.0 average for this workout as well.<br /><br />Thanks Mike!<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Arial'>Great workout Mark! </span></span></span><br />Hadn't seen any posts from you in a while and wondered if you made your high altitude vacation and how you found the rowing if you had.<br /><br />Jeff <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Jeff:<br /><br />I had to go to Italy from last Friday through this past Wednesday evening, and only got in one row and 5 minutes to hit the site and update my meters while there. Since then, I've been off defending Dwayne Adam's honor, as if he needs my help ... long story about small minds.<br /><br />My high altitude trip is just after the start of the new month. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing the impact. I've found some ergs, with the help of Dennis Hastings, 10 minutes from where we're staying, so I should be able to get in a row or two while there. Since it's a guys ski trip, and the guys I ski with are serious skiers, we typically ski from first lift up, to last possible run before being cleared off the mountain. That might mean a couple of short 30 minute rows to get 'em in after ski, but before group dinner ... or I'll be an outcast! We've been doing this trip since 1993, and it's a tight group who likes to hang together and is not big on independent activity ... another long story. I'll let you know how it goes.<br /><br />How's the training?<br /><br />-- Mark

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 21st, 2006, 10:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Awesome workout today, a week or so before my first venue race ... validation for me that I can go sub 7:20 and stay on plan ... the WP that is!<br /><br />LEVEL 1 - 8 x 500M<br /><br />Actual: 1:49.1 </td></tr></table><br /><br />Congratulations for your workout PB, but isn't the relation around +3 to 4 seconds or so for a 2k.<br /><br />Which means 7:28 to 7:32 for the 2k.<br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 22nd, 2006, 12:11 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 21 2006, 10:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Awesome workout today, a week or so before my first venue race ... validation for me that I can go sub 7:20 and stay on plan ... the WP that is!<br /><br />LEVEL 1 - 8 x 500M<br /><br />Actual: 1:49.1 </td></tr></table><br /><br />Congratulations for your workout PB, but isn't the relation around +3 to 4 seconds or so for a 2k.<br /><br />Which means 7:28 to 7:32 for the 2k. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Good question John ... I'm not sure. <br /><br />For 4 X 1K, I'd say race pace -1 second. For 4 x 2K, I'd say race pace +4. I'm not sure about 4 x 500M -- but certainly race pace -2 or more. My current PB is 7:26.1, with 8 x 500M PB well above 1:49.1 when I did it, so it may be that I still haven't pushed the 8 x 500M as much as I should, or my personal correlation between the 8 x 500M and my 2K PB is different than most.<br /><br />My 4 x 2K PB is 1:58.05, done over a month ago, which would indicate 1:54.05 pace, which is also slower than my PB pace.<br /><br />Guess I'm dogging it at practice, just like in High School (so many years ago!).<br /><br /> <br /><br />Heck, I can't imagine a 8 x 500m at 1:47.5 (RP -4) ... yet ... but maybe I could do that???

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 22nd, 2006, 12:37 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 08:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Heck, I can't imagine a 8 x 500m at 1:47.5 (RP -4) ... yet ... but maybe I could do that??? </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'd probably not be close to that either.<br /><br />As you said, the 1k's would be the better indication, and what counts is what you do in the 2k.

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 22nd, 2006, 12:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 22 2006, 12:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 08:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Heck, I can't imagine a 8 x 500m at 1:47.5 (RP -4) ... yet ... but maybe I could do that??? </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'd probably not be close to that either.<br /><br />As you said, the 1k's would be the better indication, and what counts is what you do in the 2k. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You got that right!<br /><br /> <br /><br />Ouch!

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