Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » December 5th, 2005, 5:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 4 2005, 08:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Would it be safe to say that if one could do 70' to 90' at the top (or bottom depending how you view it) of the sequence charts (longest distances), that resetting reference pace would be good to do? If so, how would you suggest one go about this? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hmm, let me think about this. 70’-90’ is probably a little more than most people could or should do continuously with the Level 4 format. Let’s use 60’ for the sake of discussion. I would say if someone progressed to 1200 strokes in 60’ (6 x 200 or the equivalent, i.e., an average of 20spm) it would be time to try a new Ref Pace. I think 1208 strokes are the most I’ve ever done in 60’, and that was almost five years ago. At my current pace I’ll probably make it to about 1190 strokes this year. If someone has reached 1200 strokes mid-season, they clearly have chosen the wrong Ref Pace – but what are you gonna do? I’d try to finish out the current season as well as possible and choose a Ref Pace more accurately next year. So, let’s say someone has reached 1200 strokes with a particular Ref Pace but there are till several weeks to go in the season. Two alternatives would be to 1) continue with the same Ref Pace and progress to faster sequences (the 202-210 range) or 2) go to the next fastest Ref Pace and go back to using slower sequences. Nether solution is perfect but I’d go with #2 (faster Ref Pace, back to slower sequences). How far back to go (which slower sequences to use)? Well, you’d cover about the same number of meters in 1170 strokes (19.5spm average) using the next fastest Ref Pace (vs. 1200 strokes with the slower Ref Pace). But to account for the greater intensity of more force per stroke, I’d probably drop back a little further, probably to about 19-19.2spm for 60’ with the faster Ref Pace. You'd be covering fewer meters than before but working harder to do it. It would also probably be necessary to set aside a few sessions just to practice with the new paces for the various stroke rates (i.e., get used to consistently hitting the faster paces for the various rates).<br /><br />Well, that’s what I’d do, but what the heck do I know? Oh, and to reiterate one other key point about the Level 4 sequences. The faster ones at the bottom of the table are almost theoretical ideals. If you have chosen your Ref Pace correctly, you won’t be able to do them in continuous formats. When I am fully trained, I can barely do the 220 sequence as an isolated 10’ piece (which I try to reach as part of the 4 x 10’ format).<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 5th, 2005, 7:07 pm

Beautiful Mike. <br /><br />Your response makes perfect sense, and gives a somewhat empirical way to calculate where to go on the charts to structure a new workout if the reference pace one used was too slow (or improvement came at such a fast pace) that one "blew off" the chart. Those of us just starting the WP and also (really) just starting to row (like 6 months ago) *may* run into this before the season ends.<br /><br />Thanks!

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 5th, 2005, 7:34 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 4 2005, 04:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Would it be safe to say that ... resetting reference pace would be good to do? If so, how would you suggest one go about this?<br /><br />Regards -- Mark[right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 4 2005, 05:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You take one pace, and replace it with another one. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 5 2005, 03:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Your response makes perfect sense ... Thanks![right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />You're welcome! <br />

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 2:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 08:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 5 2005, 12:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I will have lots of money in my account to pay for a medal as you like to say<br /><br />Cheers!![right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Keep saving, and I will send you a tshirt! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I actually did that in the spring of 2003. I was so impressed with the results of the Wolverine Plan, I sent Mike Caviston a sweat shirt from my college alamater in an effort to show my appreciation. <br /><br />John, I think that is an excellent idea. I would also suggest for anyone to send Mike Caviston a t-shirt of your college or high school alamater to show your own appreciaton for the Wolverine Plan. <br /><br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 6th, 2005, 2:10 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Dec 6 2005, 02:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 08:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Dec 5 2005, 12:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I will have lots of money in my account to pay for a medal as you like to say<br /><br />Cheers!![right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Keep saving, and I will send you a tshirt! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I actually did that in the spring of 2003. I was so impressed with the results of the Wolverine Plan, I sent Mike Caviston a sweat shirt from my college alamater in an effort to show my appreciation. <br /><br />John, I think that is an excellent idea. I would also suggest for anyone to send Mike Caviston a t-shirt of your college or high school alamater to show your own appreciaton for the Wolverine Plan. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I had best not do this (being an Ohio State grad) since Mike teaches at "That School up North". Maybe I can get him a nice Roots sweatshirt on my next trip to Canada (in a few weeks). No conflict there. And great quality products.<br /><br />Mike, what size do you wear?<br />

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » December 6th, 2005, 2:31 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Dec 6 2005, 02:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I actually did that in the spring of 2003. I was so impressed with the results of the Wolverine Plan, I sent Mike Caviston a sweat shirt from my college alamater in an effort to show my appreciation. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Thomas, the sweatshirt you sent comes in handy as the inner layer during these blustery cold Michigan winter days!<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 6 2005, 02:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Mike, what size do you wear? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I want to state for the record that the Wolverine Plan is strictly a non-profit endeavor and the author is happy to share whatever small amount of expertise he has with anyone who asks completely free of charge…<br /><br /><br /><br />…but I wear a large.<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br />

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 3:45 pm

Hi Mike,<br /><br />I am glad to hear it.<br /><br />If you could provide an address for those who wish to partake in this, it would be appreciated. You do have addresses listed on the University of Michigan web site, but I don't know if they are up to date.<br /><br />Later,<br />Thomas

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 3:46 pm

By the way, you deserve it.

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » December 6th, 2005, 4:00 pm

As a show of our appreciation, and as a Christmas gift , we could use our collective purchase power and get Mike something like the Concept2 slides or the ErgMonitor.<br /><br />What do you think?

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » December 6th, 2005, 4:02 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Dec 6 2005, 04:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As a show of our appreciation, and as a Christmas gift , we could use our collective purchase power and get Mike something like the Concept2 slides or the ErgMonitor.<br /><br />What do you think? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Francois:<br /><br />Outstanding idea. Count me in, otherwise I need to get the Roots sweatshirt!<br /><br /> <br /><br />-- Mark

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 4:05 pm

Quite frankly, I think any sort of gift would be nice. I think though that John's idea of a T-shirt would be a little more personal for each of us. Mike would actually physically see the appreciation on several different levels from a wide array of sources. It would also be more immediate and easier for anyone to do. I ordered that sweatshirt on-line, which made it quite simple.

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » December 6th, 2005, 4:45 pm

Well, let’s put this topic to bed. First of all, while I’m very appreciative of the positive sentiment, I’m not soliciting any gifts! But here’s something to think about. All the years I spent coaching, at the end of the season the athletes would all chip in and buy a gift or two. Sometimes the gifts would be embarrassingly expensive, coming from a bunch of cash-strapped students, and while I appreciated them I would feel pretty guilty. I finally got the message across that what I could really use was some sort of scrap book for the season. So the athletes began putting together scrap books with pictures, short notes, and little mementos of the season (press clippings, etc.) They cost almost nothing to put together but it became a really personal gift and I will always treasure them. So maybe somebody would want to take charge of gathering pictures of any WP-followers, maybe racing or training on the erg, with a short personal note saying who you are and where you’re from and stuff like that. Barring something unexpected, I plan to be racing in Boston in February, so that would be a good time and place for someone to deliver such a project.<br /><br />Now, let’s save the Wolverine Plan Discussion thread for discussing the Wolverine Plan!<br /><br />Thanks much,<br /><br />Mike Caviston <br />

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 6th, 2005, 8:55 pm

This morning I started on my second go around for the 3 week rotation of the Wolverine Plan. I spent much of the first 3 weeks experimenting and trying to find my way around. I have learned more about the proper training on the rower in these 3 weeks than I have in the past year searching through the various discussion groups on C2 training forums (USA and England) I picked up some good and some not so good information on the these forums. <br /><br />Probably the best information I received was when I was reading through the discussion on “Pete’s Plan” (an eviscerated imitation of the WP) and came across a references to the original Wolverine plan which brought me to this discussion group. <br /><br />The rest as they say is history. For the past 3-4 weeks I have read every posting on this discussion forum. I have downloaded the Wolverine plan from the website. I have the entire wolverine plan outlined and cataloqued for quick reference and have downloaded all of Mike Caviston’s posts with clarification of the finer points of the WP plan. <br /><br />As I stated in my original post my hobby for the past 20 years has been to study exercise physiology most specifically with regards to endurance exercise, physiology of the aging athlete, and exercise physiology and nutrition as it applies to bicycle racing. <br /><br /><i><b>An excellent source on the web is Dr. Stephen Seiler’s website. <br />Masters Athlete Physiology and Performance.<br /><br /> <a href='http://home.hia.no/~stephens/index.html' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/~stephens/index.html</a><br /><br />I came across this website about 5-6 years ago and found the authors explanation for the physiology behind training straight forward, on the point and very knowledgeable but in a form designed the help the non scientist understand the science behind it all. <br /><br />Dr. Seiler is an exercise physiologist with research in muscle physiology. He was originally from Texas but has moved to Norway. He written numerous articles on physiology of the endurance athlete, the aging athlete, and on physiology of rowing. His first sport is rowing and has a gold medal in the 4x at the Masters Nationals. While the website deals with several sports the best part is the area dealing with the physiology of rowing. </b> </i> <br /><br /><br />The Wolverine Plan is based on very sound physiological principles and it is not just a bunch of exercises put together on a whim by Mike Caviston. <br /><br />If you understand exercise physiology you will understand the rationale behind all the details especially in the L4 workouts. <br /><br />I am not sure if anyone is interested in physiology of the WP but I find it very intriguing. Probably much like a CPA finds rows of numbers very intriguing. <br /><br />If you are interested in understanding Mike’s rationale in putting together this program I would suggest that you either go to the above cited website or wait for Mike Caviston to write his book or start his own website.<br /><br />If anyone is interested I plan to try explain my interpretation of physiological the basis of the WP plan.<br /><br />Ralph Giarnella<br /><br />PS: Mark, per quanto reguarda Giovanni, sonno d’accordo! Universita Di Pisa, Scuola Medica 1971.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » December 6th, 2005, 8:57 pm

I got kind of excited with John Rupp's post. I just had to second the motion on the T-shirt idea. Out of Rupp's 2500 plus posts, he finally made good cents <br /><br />What comes to thought is the scene in the movie <i>A Beautiful Mind </i>where they show the Princeton falculty executing <i>The Pens</i>. <br /><br />The t-shirt idea is just a humble way of saying, "Hey," without going overboard.<br /><br />

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » December 6th, 2005, 10:39 pm

I want to get back to describe my start of round 2 of WP. I did a Level 1 8x500. I started conservatively with the first 500 m at slightly above the average of my first attempt at the 8x500 Level. <br /><br />Each successive 500m was at a faster pace than the previous 500. The last two (#7, #8) 500 m intervals where successively new PB for me. I improved 1.1 seconds faster than my previous PB which was set at the end of October in my pre-WP rowing. I felt like I could probably have done 1-2 more at an even faster rate. Perhaps with my next try at the 500 m I will have a better feel for the right pace and will be able to keep all 8x500 m intervals roughly the same. <br /><br /> For now I am still trying find my correct pace. I have used my known 2k pace as a reference pace, however that was done with very poor technique and therefore the numbers may not be reflective of the pace I should be using. <br /><br /><i><b> Over the past two weeks I have spent a lot of time working on my stroke technique and feel that my stroke has become more efficient smooth and more powerful. An imortant part of this improvement has been rowing strapless- For the record I did my entire 4x2k Level 2 training strapless. </i></b><br /><br />The average pace for the entire series of 8 intervals was a full 4 seconds faster than the average pace which I had achieved the first time I tried the 8x500.<br /><br />My observed maximum Heart rate for rowing is 163- I use a HRM for all my workouts. <i> I know that the Mike does not use HR as a measure and I fully understand and agree with his premises.</i>. However since I have been using a HRM in my training since 1985 I am able to use HR to judge the effectiveness of my workout rather than as a focus of my workout. <br /><br />During this entire set of intervals my HR never exceeded 155. Of the accumulated 14+ minutes required to complete the 8 intervals 60% was spent in what is known as TR zone in the C2 interactive training program. That zone is from about 148-155 for me. <br /><br />The only time I reached my 100% VO2 max using WP was last week at the very end of my last 4x2k level 2 training session. I reached 163 in the last 100 meters. <br /><br />My average spm for the 8x500 was in the 34-36 range.<br /><br />I have found through experience that as long as I keep my HR at between 150-155 (90-93% of my VO2 max) I can continue for a fairly long time. However once I begin to get above 156 it won't be long before I reach a HR of 163 which I can probably sustain for at most another minute before my muscles begin to shut down due lactate accumulation. <br /><br />Both the Level 1 and 2 workouts, in my opinion, are pushing my aerobic capacity to its limits. It is only by pushing my aerobic capacity to its limits will I be able to increase my aerobic capacity. <br /><br />Ralph Giarnella <br />Southington, CT

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