Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » November 11th, 2005, 10:20 pm

Here are some Level 4 observations based on recent discussion: Reference Paces can be tricky, so it’s important to try to choose one you can stick with for an entire training season. In the absence of a reliable 2K score, probably the best alternative is to estimate 2K ability from a Level 1 workout. This of course assumes the Level 1 workout is performed correctly and with a near-maximal effort. If the L4 workouts feel too easy, one way to increase intensity is too use a more rapid rate of increase in strokes/workout (beyond the suggested 1 stroke/10’/week). But make sure there is room on the sequence charts to keep increasing without passing 200 strokes/10’ before the end of your training season. If you reach the point where you are doing 1200 strokes in an hour and it’s only midway through the season, something has gone seriously wrong. Another option if workouts seem too easy is to increase the length of the workouts. This may not be the best solution since there will be practical limits as to how long you are able to row. Going from say 50’ to 60’ may be a temporary solution, but chances are if you don’t have the correct Ref Pace then the longer workout will soon start to feel too “easy” again. Execution of the workouts with the correct stroke rates is essential to create the structured format for gradual, long-term improvement. If you want to do a workout with higher rates and higher meter totals, there is already a training band called level 3. I think people are overthinking the setting of the monitor for subintervals. I always set for 10’ (or 6’) and am perfectly happy with the results. [That is, a 60’ workout is set up as a continuous 60’ row but I recover the 6’ or 10’ meter/pace totals after the workout along with the grand total.] I can review the meter total for each 10’ sequence and how it compares to my goal and see my overall consistency for a given sequence (e.g., 190) from one week to the next. Setting for 2’ sub-intervals isn’t necessarily better information because in that small a time frame the average spm or meter total can vary significantly depending on whether you happen to be on the recovery or on the drive when the next 2’ segment begins. Over 6-10’, things even out pretty well. When using the PM2 there is less information available on the monitor during the workout, so you have to accept on faith that you are reaching your goals though I have calculated my meter goals by the first 10’, 20’, 30’ etc. so I know if I am on target as the workout progresses. With enough practice and experience I have found I can pretty accurately estimate what my meter total was for each segment without actually seeing until the workout is over; I can just tell by how well each segment seems to be going at the time and if I seem to be a little ahead, a little behind, or right on my goal paces. These days I almost exclusively use the PM3, which allows a little more information to be viewed during the actual workout. I set up the screen to see my overall average pace as well as my average pace for each segment (10’ or 6’) of the workout. That gives more direct feedback about how each segment is going. If, say, one of the segments is 180 (4’/3’/2’/1’), I know exactly where I am for the first 4’ of the segment and can still estimate pretty well over the final 6’. I know what the average pace should be for each segment so as I finish one segment and move on to another I know how well I did on the completed segment. Using index cards or sticky notes or whatever on or near the monitor to keep the workout’s rate and pace changes available for reference is a good practice. But it probably won’t be too long before you chunk all the bits of information for each sequence so that terms like “180” and “188” automatically bring to mind the necessary formats so you don’t have to think in terms of “4’ @16spm @ 2:02, then 3’ @ 18spm @ 1:58, then…” etc. Then all you have to memorize before a workout are the actual sequences you will be using. I never count strokes during a workout for a particular time period but that doesn’t mean that others can’t. I just pay attention to keeping the rate consistent on the monitor. One little trick I do is, if I’m trying to pull @ 18spm and I inadvertently see “19” for a stroke on the monitor, I try to relax enough that I soon see a “17” to compensate. But it gets messy if you see-saw back and forth between 17 & 19 when you’re trying to hold 18, so I really concentrate on holding the one desired rate. It appears that many people are avoiding sequences that follow the 4’/3’/2’/1’ format or the pyramid sequences (176, 186, 196) and simply alternating 2’ at a time between two different rates. I think of the “2s” and the “8s” sequences (178, 182, 188, 192 etc.) as filler between the more challenging and productive “6s” and “10s” (186, 196, 180, 190, 200). The Level 4 format is meant to be more varied than a simple alternation of “up 2” and “down 2” every two minutes or alternating the same two sequences for an entire workout. Now, that is boring! Also, why not get into the odd number sequences (178, 186, 190, 198 etc.)? Consult the PaceVsRate chart: [attachmentid=109] Everything becomes simpler and smoother with a few million more meters under your belt, so hang in there. Mike Caviston

[old] arakawa · Post by **[old] arakawa** » November 11th, 2005, 11:27 pm

Confessions of a Wolverine Plan Newbie Day 4: Level 4 / 4x10' @ L4 -4 pace Full disclosure: Although this was my fourth daily WP workout, my plan called for me to do it Thursday morning, not this (Friday) evening. I don't have a good excuse for why I didn't do it on Thursday like I was supposed to. Don't ask me for the excuse and I won't lie to you about it. Today's workout was a 4x10', made up of the following intervals:<ul><li>10' @ 2:10 / 16 SPM --> 2308 m</li><li>10' @ 2:06 / 18 SPM --> 2381 m</li><li>10' @ 2:10 / 16 SPM --> 2308 m</li><li>10' @ 2:06 / 18 SPM --> 2381 m</li></ul>Actual distances & stroke rates:<ul><li>2320 m / 16 SPM (+12 m)</li><li>2383 m / 18 SPM (+2 m)</li><li>2318 m / 16 SPM (+10 m)</li><li>2380 m / 18 SPM (-1 m)</li></ul>Observations:<ul><li>My target paces were derived by taking my 2k reference pace (1:48), subtracting four seconds (arriving at 1:44), then looking up the 16 SPM and 18 SPM paces from the Level 4 pace chart. The 16 SPM pace I used today is actually 5 s faster than the 16 SPM pace I used in my previous Level 4 workout (the 18 SPM pace I used today is 4 s faster than the 18 SPM pace I used in my previous Level 4 workout).</li><li>I haven't figured out how to set up intervals on my PM2 where one timed piece is followed by another timed piece, so I decided to time 10' for the work pieces, then measure 507 m for my 2:30 recovery piece. My thinking was, if my recovery pace is 2:32, I'll need to figure out how far I go in 2 s at that pace. It's 7 m. However, I added it to 500 m instead of subtracting it, so my recovery pieces were actually 2:34 instead of 2:30.</li><li>This workout seemed even easier than my previous level 4 workout (40' = 176/180/176/180). I had all sorts of gas left in the tank, despite doing a level 2 workout this morning. I even did a 2k cooldown.</li></ul>I was trying to figure out my next 4x10' Level 4 workout, and came across <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 2692&st=60#' target='_blank'>Mike Caviston's post on Creating Level 4 Workouts</a>. I seemed to have been confused from the start about how to set up 4x10' workouts in the first place. Mike says<ul><li>when selecting the stroke rates for a 4x10', the rule of thumb is to add 2 SPM to my base continuous rate (e.g. from 18.6 SPM to 20.6 SPM), and select four 10' intervals that give me that higher stroke rate.</li><li>the recovery period is one-third (not one-fourth) the work period, so the recovery period for a 4x10' is 3:20 (not 2:30).</li></ul>I'll have to look through my notes to find out how I came to my erroneous conclusions about what a 4x10' and its corresponding recovery periods are supposed to be. In any case, my next 4x10' Level 4 workout will be a week from yesterday. I'll pick out four 10' pieces so that the average stroke rate is 19.8 (my 40' and 60' continuous are both 17.8 SPM this week).

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » November 12th, 2005, 12:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(arakawa @ Nov 11 2005, 11:27 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Day 4: Level 4 / 4x10' @ L4 -4 pace </td></tr></table> Am I understanding you correctly? Your workout was 4 x 10’, and each 10’ was the same flat rate for the entire duration, and the pace you chose was your 2K-based Ref Pace minus four?? What on earth does this have to do with Level 4 or the Wolverine Plan? I don’t see how I could have stated more clearly or directly that these modifications are exactly what NOT to do if you want to follow the Wolverine Plan. You can do whatever workouts you want; it’s none of my business. But PLEASE don’t refer to them as “Wolverine Plan” workouts! Mike Caviston

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » November 12th, 2005, 2:02 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(arakawa @ Nov 11 2005, 11:27 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>In any case, my next 4x10' Level 4 workout will be a week from yesterday. I'll pick out four 10' pieces so that the average stroke rate is 19.8 (my 40' and 60' continuous are both 17.8 SPM this week). </td></tr></table> Masa, If you want to do 4x10', and average 19.8, then do a 196/200/196/200 session. The 196 is a pyramid of 2' each @ 18, 20, 22, 20, 18 The 200 is 4' @ 18, 3' @ 20, 2' @ 22, 1' @ 24 Your paces should be 16 - 2:14, 18 - 2:09, 20 - 2:05, 22 - 2:00, 24 - 1:56. Stick with these paces for this season. It looks like you bumped your reference pace because this workout is too easy. I'd have to agree that the way you set it up is too easy. I'd recommend skipping the 4x10' for now. Let your L4 workouts be ENDURANCE workouts and not some modified interval workouts. If you're doing L1 & L2 intervals, along with L3 distance workouts, then you'll need the longer L4 workouts to balance your training week. It looks like you attempted 140' of L4 last week over 3 sessions. Next week do 180' over 3 sessions or 150' over 2 sessions. (I'd do 2 sessions - 70' & a 2x40'. These are a pain in the butt, literally, but they do build endurance, and hitting your pace/rate combo beyond 60 minutes is a mental & physical endurance challenge). I'm pretty much only doing 10' sets. I set it for 60' with 10' splits. (I'm using RowPro). I want to get a body of work under me this year, and then I'll look at the other variations Mike has suggested. So, keep the reference pace constant but increase the duration and start moving up the progressions. You have enough to worry about with increasing the pace on the L1 & L2 workouts. Increase your time or your total number of strokes each week (if you're hitting your pace and distance goals). Don't increase both in the same week. Keep at it. Every workout is a learning opportunity. (So is every post to this forum, apparently).

[old] Bill · Post by **[old] Bill** » November 12th, 2005, 4:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Nov 11 2005, 11:38 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(arakawa @ Nov 11 2005, 11:27 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Day 4: Level 4 / 4x10' @ L4 -4 pace </td></tr></table> Am I understanding you correctly? Your workout was 4 x 10’, and each 10’ was the same flat rate for the entire duration, and the pace you chose was your 2K-based Ref Pace minus four?? What on earth does this have to do with Level 4 or the Wolverine Plan? I don’t see how I could have stated more clearly or directly that these modifications are exactly what NOT to do if you want to follow the Wolverine Plan. You can do whatever workouts you want; it’s none of my business. But PLEASE don’t refer to them as “Wolverine Plan” workouts! Mike Caviston </td></tr></table> Both of you, I think I can see whats happened here. Has there been a misinterpretation of one of the other posts by Mike - "Alternative 4 x 10' workout - 9 March 09:57:39PM" ? Bill

[old] Bill · Post by **[old] Bill** » November 12th, 2005, 4:48 am

Carla, I have wdifficulty with the 16s as well. Am trying to use a Rowpro pace boat to guide me but have massive difficulty doing a slow strong stroke at 16 and stay exactly with the paceboat rower. Tendency to do strong quick leg push and then burn off some time elsewhere. What puzzles me is that 18s are great no problem at all. They feel good. Bill

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 12th, 2005, 7:36 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(bmoore @ Nov 11 2005, 09:34 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 11 2005, 02:16 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>CONFESSIONS continued ... LEVEL 2 ... 1K W/U @ 2:30 ---> 2:05 pace ... 4x2000 w/1000 recovery (2:30 pace or less) after all 4 sets + 1-2 minutes stretch on ball due to lower back "tightness/fatigue" after first 3 ... total rest about 6 to 7 minutes (active/passive combination). 1) 2:02.9/24 2) 2:02.7/25 3) 2:02.6/25 4) 2:02.3/25 This was my first time for this workout. It was work, but not outlandish. No falling off the erg while still strapped in, but not fun. Target was set at about 1.08 x 2K PB pace (1:54) = 2:03. I have a mild cold but noticed no impact from it. Still trying to find "current training limit" for just about all Levels. Getting closer. Can't wait to be doing these all under 2:00. Maybe next time I should just go for it? </td></tr></table> Let the training dictate your training. Don't just "go for it" with these workouts. Each time you do this workout, drop your goal pace down to the next whole second (2:02). You'll average just under this based on your splits above. Each time you'll make steady progress. The worst thing is to go for it and have to put the handle down. I've done this too many times. It's frustrating, but not so much that I don't remember to to just let the training dictate the training. My ego gets in the way, and then I blow it, and then I have a setback that can affect other workouts that week. Anyway, be cautious and remember this is a long term commitment you're making to yourself. </td></tr></table> Bill: Agreed. In fact, I couldn't agree with you more. When I asked about "going for it", it was a question about setting my new target at 2:00 pace rather than 2:02 or 2:03, as the 2:04 pace seemed a bit too easy and I am yet to find my current training limit within this specific workout. NOT just ripping out the 4 fastest 2Ks possible. This was the first time I did it, and I used Mike's absolute mimimum suggested target of reference pace x 1.08. I'm thinking I could drop 3 to 4 seconds a set (in pace) and still achieve the target across all 4 sets. Now that I think about it, maybe I'm dreaming, because these ARE 2Ks! -- Mark

[old] arakawa · Post by **[old] arakawa** » November 12th, 2005, 2:40 pm

Confessions of a Wolverine Plan Newbie Day 5: Level 3 / 12k @ 2k x 115.6% Full disclosure: Although this was my fifth daily WP workout, my plan called for me to do it Friday morning, not this (Saturday) morning. I had two workouts yesterday to make up my missed Wednesday and Thursday workouts. Today's going to be another two-a-day day, where I do my Saturday Level 4 workout this evening. Then, I'll be all caught up for this week (Sunday is my rest day). By the way, two-a-days are tiring. It takes a lot of discipline to keep to even a one-a-day for six days a week (something I failed to do twice in my first four days); imagine how much discipline one must exercise to average one and a half workouts a day for six days a week. That discipline difference is probably one of the big reasons why my 2k times haven't improved for about a year while Mike Caviston's the world record holder and setting PBs at age 40. Today's Level 3 workout is a 12k continuous at 2:04.6. I nailed the average pace, and pulled the piece at 22 SPM. Observations:<ul><li>Before I started, I was very confident that I could do the 12k at 2:04.6, since I did a half marathon about three weeks ago at 2:04.3. The fact that I rowed over 30k yesterday with my makeup Level 2 and Level 4 workouts did make today's Level 3 workout a bit more challenging, however.</li></ul>My next Level 3 continuous workout is two weeks from yesterday. I think I'll up the distance from 12k to 13k while keeping the pace at 2:04.6.

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » November 12th, 2005, 7:28 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 11 2005, 04:37 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>A quick L3 question for the group ... In the copy of the Plan I have, it says, for Level 3: "Sample workouts include continuous 12K (beginning at shorter distances in the fall and progressing to even longer distances by spring)... and 15 x 3’ (with 1’ recovery between pieces)." ...Is that 15 reps of 3 minutes? ...Seems like a very different workout than the continuous piece at 12K. </td></tr></table> In my experience, there are three workouts which most closely relate to 2K ability. The first/best predictor of my 2K ability is 4 x 1K (Level 1); the next best predictor is 4 x 2K (Level 2); and third is a Level 3 interval workout. I have referred to Level 3 intervals periodically over the past couple years but here is a chance to clarify and consolidate information. First off, Level 3 intervals (I’ll say L3I for short) are (like 4 x 10’/L4) a supplementary or advanced workout to be done in conjunction with a weekly Continuous Level 3. [As explained previously, one of the cornerstones of a WP program should be a continuous Level 3 of 60’ or more.] Some basic points about L3I: 1) The basic format is a 3:1 work:recovery ratio. I suggest 3’ on/1’ off, 4’ on/1’20” off, or 5’ on/1’40” off. I always used these formats in a team setting so that slower and faster athletes could all stay on the same start/stop schedule. But for my personal workouts I prefer to use distance for the work intervals; the two formats I favor involve either 1250m or 1500m for each work interval (1K might be appropriate for slower athletes). I set the recovery interval as 1/3 of the estimated time for my work interval (since this involves extra math some might prefer to stick to 3’ on/1’ off.) The 1500m interval is actually pretty easy to work with since the recovery interval would be the same as your overall workout GP. 2) The total distance for the L3I work intervals should add up to somewhere between 75-90% of the distance you cover during 60’ of continuous Level 3 rowing. No need to be obsessed with the exact percentage; adjust it to suit your needs and abilities. But that’s a ballpark figure. That would probably mean something like 12-15 x 3’, 8-10 x 1500m, etc. 3) The intensity is roughly (60’ Level 3 Continuous pace) – 3 seconds. E.g., if Level 3 Continuous is 1:51, then L3I is 1:48 (at least to get started). [In Watts, the L3I pace would be about 8% faster than Continuous.] As with other relationships between intensities for different workouts, use it as a rough guide to get started but let the specific workout develop its own history and progress. 4) The recovery can be pretty light, but keep moving. For Level 1 & 2 workouts with higher intensity, the recovery needs to be even more active. For L3I, paddling lightly is fine; just don’t stop entirely. 5) Pacing for each work interval should be continuous or negative split. I prefer to do them with essentially continuous pacing using a small negative split. I prefer to avoid hitting it too hard at the start of each interval, but just settle quickly into my planned Goal Pace. 6) Pacing across the entire workout should also be fairly even with a slight negative split. My format is currently 10 x 1500m (1:45r), so the math is pretty simple when I figure out my strategy. For example, to average 1:46.2 for the entire workout, I do two intervals @ 1:47 and the remaining eight @ 1:46. 7) This workout is deceptively enjoyable in the early stages. It is fun and it is easy to make rapid gains initially. But eventually you cross a threshold and one day you sit down and get blindsided by one of the toughest workouts you can remember doing. I’ve coached athletes who refer to this as the “Level 2 from h3ll”, because the paces get pretty fast and it just goes on and on. In my training, by the end of the season my L3I pace surpasses my initial Level 2 pace from the start of the season. It might be called “Level 2.5”. 8) I find this to be a very valuable workout but I have become increasingly cautious when it comes to advancing the pace. For years I did this workout on a weekly basis, but now I do it only on alternate weeks (alternating with 6K/5K/4K, which I have mentioned previously). 9) Again, this L3I workout is in addition to my Continuous Level 3. As with the 4 x 10’ (L4) workout, many people look at this and say “Ooh, that looks like fun, I’ll do that instead of the Continuous workout!” The WP already has L1 & L2 for intervals and intensity. Make sure to TCB first with plenty of continuous L3 & L4 training before adding another interval session. Enjoy! Mike Caviston

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 12th, 2005, 7:47 pm

Mike: You are a stealth comedian ... first you say they're the workouts from "H3LL", and then you ask us to "enjoy"! Thanks for the clarification ... Mark

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 13th, 2005, 4:15 pm

CONFESSIONS continued ... L4 for 60'. Was off by 15 meters this workout. Last three L4 sixty minute workouts have been off by 15, 27 & 52 meters (latest to oldest workouts), so it appears I'm getting better at hitting the stroke rates and paces, but still not world class! -- Mark

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 13th, 2005, 5:09 pm

Friends: I have not rotated in the pyramid interval workouts for Levels 1 & 2 (yet). I want to do this over the next week or two. I do not know at what pace to do these. Do you have any recommendations? Are all pieces in the pyramid done at the same pace? Do you have the experience to know what your current pace for these is vs. your current 8x500, 4x1000, 4x2000 paces? I would very much appreciate your comments. Thanks, and regards ... Mark

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 14th, 2005, 5:07 pm

CONFESSIONS continued ... PLAN: LEVEL 3 --> 12K continuous row at target pace (2:09 for me, I'm a slow poke). ACTUAL: Just over 9,500M @ below target pace, and then had a spell of EDD (Erg Deficit Disorder). Lower back was tight, but that was only an excuse for almost going crazy with sheer boredom (for some reason) and having to get off the erg. Stopped and stretched on ball (4 to 5 minutes), got back on, and did another 2,500M at target pace -1 (2:08). COMMENTARY: These paces are just a second (or less) slower than my 10K best pace (2:07.8), so it appears the Plan is working ... I just need to find a way to focus and get 12K+ continuous, constant pace, pieces DONE. I can do L4 - 60' workouts without a problem, but the continuous pieces at constant pace are mental torture for me at this time. Suggestions?

[old] kjgress · Post by **[old] kjgress** » November 14th, 2005, 5:10 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 14 2005, 04:07 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>CONFESSIONS continued ... the continuous pieces at constant pace are mental torture for me at this time. Suggestions? </td></tr></table> Look back through the literature (can't recall exactly where) Mike makes some comments and suggestions about breaking up long continuous sequences pace-wise to get some mental exercise in.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 14th, 2005, 5:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(kjgress @ Nov 14 2005, 01:10 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Look back through the literature (can't recall exactly where)[right] </td></tr></table> Either can anyone else!

Concept2 Forum

Wolverine Plan Discussion

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training