Couple of noddy questions from a newbie

[ErikLondon]

First post so go easy....!

Been tring to get fit recently so been hitting the gym in the mornings - mostly done running (5k each day) and some weight training. Not looking to bulk up but just lose some weight (currently 92kg looking to go to low 80s) and generally get fit.

Had a go on the rowing machine at the gym this week and actually really liked it - tried it a few times before but somehow this time felt better.

Anyways, did a few shorter sessions in the week and today thought I'd go for a 5k to set a benchmark and test my fitness. Managed a 22.05 which I was actually very pleased with - was going for it but could definitely have gone under 22 if I really wanted.

However, and here's the big question - I had the machine set only on level 2. Not looking for muscle gain but general fitness so thought longer distances at shorter resistance would be better than short distances at higher resistance. Will likely try and mix it up in the future.

So, my long winded question - what setting should I have been rowing on? Saw the rankings list and managed to sneak in at 406th place but have no idea what resistance level everyone else is working on - is there a general rule for the rankings tables?

Thinking about getting into this a bit more seriously and trying to crack 20mins by the end of 2008 (realistic target?) so any advice appreciated!

Cheers.

[Citroen]

The damper lever position doesn't always match on each rower. The amount of crud and fluff in the flywheel cage can radically change the damping of the flywheel. (There's other factors like temperature and height above sea level - but that doesn't have much effect for me in the UK.)

So you'll find that folks on here don't talk about damper lever positions, rather they talk about drag factor. Drag factor (DF) is a number measured by the PM2/PM2+/PM3 or PM4 monitor on every stroke. The monitor uses that as part of the maths to calculate the pace for 500m. That combined with stroke rate gives your time to cover the 10K distance.

The engineers, physiscists and mathematicians can read about it in more detail than they need at http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ergometer.html.

The PM will display the drag factor. You can use that number to configure two rowing machines to have an identical feel, by matching the drag factor numbers.

On a PM2/PM2+ (remove the HR interface if fitted), turn on the monitor and press [OK]+[REST] at the same time. Row six or seven big strokes to get the flywheel spinning and the DF will be displayed in the lower right of the monitor (annotated with "drag").

On a PM3/PM4 choose More Options from the main menu then choose Display Drag Factor. Again row six or seven nice strong strokes to get the number.

On a clean, well maintained machine the DF should range from about 95 (damper 1) to 210 (damper 10). The worst I've ever seen was DF 109 on damper 10 (the cruddy old model C machine in the Basingstoke Hilton Hotel).

I usually row on 120 df. (That was damper 3 on the model C I was using last night.) A drag factor somewhere from 115 to 135 will suit most folks. It's completly your choice. The only, normal, rule is that in competitions once the drag is set it can't be adjusted during the race. The higher drag tends to push the focus of your rowing from legs to more arms, which isn't a good thing unless you're rowing a short course (100m or 300m) sprint.

BTW, doing 5K per day will be tedious in the extreme. Try mixing in some intervals and some longer rows. You should, also, plan on taking at least one day off per week to avoid any risk of overtraining. You should easily crack the 20' 5K in the next couple of months.

[ErikLondon]

Hey Dougie,

Much appreciate the answer - I will definitely check out the DF on the machine at my gym and aim for the 115/135 range.

On the training I used to hit the gym pretty hard all through school/uni and be mega fit but been a bit worse in the past few years due to the job but now want to get back to a decent level of fitness - hitting 30 my metabolism definitely slowed..!

Agree on the tedious comment. I went on the rowing machine today because I'm already bored of running 5k every morning (been doing it for about a month) so was planning the following schedule five day schedule (I take the weekends as rest days):

1. Row 1 x 2k and run 4k
2. Row 2 x 3k and run 2k
3. Row 7k and cycle for 20mins
4. Run 6k and cycle for 15mins
5. Row 5k test

I would mix it up during the 4 days over the weeks to rotate long/short runs, rowing and cycling. I would then always do a 5k test on fridays to check my level of progress.

Does this sound sensible?

[Bob S.]

Hey Dougie,

planning the following schedule five day schedule (I take the weekends as rest days):

1. Row 1 x 2k and run 4k
2. Row 2 x 3k and run 2k
3. Row 7k and cycle for 20mins
4. Run 6k and cycle for 15mins
5. Row 5k test

I would mix it up during the 4 days over the weeks to rotate long/short runs, rowing and cycling. I would then always do a 5k test on fridays to check my level of progress.

Does this sound sensible?

As usual, Dougie's answer was right on the button and you are wise to heed it. Your cross training looks like it should work out well, both for training and for avoiding boredom. Here's a couple of answers to questions you didn't ask:

First, as early as possible, get some good advice on your technique. Occasionally a gym manager will be knowledgeable about indoor rowers but that would be a rare exception. The best bet would be to get advice from the folks at an on-the-water rowing club, if there is one in your area. There are also some indoor rowing clubs springing up (in the U.S. at least), like Indorow and Rowbics (you can find them on Google). Another option is to get a video of your current technique and send it in to this forum (and the UK forum as well) to get a critique from the members.

Another item is a combination of proper warm up and cool down. These should always be done for the more intense erg pieces (and for any other intense physical activity for that matter). For a PB attempt, it is not unreasonable to do 15 to 20 minutes of warm up. A full cool down could take about as long. For less intense or really long erg pieces, they can be much shorter.

Bob S.

[paul s]

I checked my drag factor and it was 84 at (1), 160 at (10). This is with a C-Breeze on it. If nomal is 95 to 210, is this telling me that my erg is dirty, or could it be the C-Breeze.

Thanks, Paul Salata

[Citroen]

I checked my drag factor and it was 84 at (1), 160 at (10). This is with a C-Breeze on it. If nomal is 95 to 210, is this telling me that my erg is dirty, or could it be the C-Breeze.

Thanks, Paul Salata

It's the C-Breeze. Take it off and repeat the test.

[Bob S.]

I checked my drag factor and it was 84 at (1), 160 at (10). This is with a C-Breeze on it. If nomal is 95 to 210, is this telling me that my erg is dirty, or could it be the C-Breeze.

Thanks, Paul Salata

The C-Breeze, like anything else that blocks the air flow, is bound to reduce the DF. The reduction that you are seeing, looks to me to be quite reasonable for such a device. That is no reason to discourage the use of the C-Breeze however. A DF of 160 is much more than adequate for most purposes and, if some one wanted to something for which a higher DF was appropriate, the C-Breeze could just be removed for that piece. The only things that I can think of that someone would do this for would be very short pieces, like 100m or single pull. For these, you wouldn't need to have the C-Breeze operating.

I don't have one; I just use a box fan when it is too hot. But it would be interesting if others who use them would check out their DFs and see if their results are the same as yours. I would bet that Paul Smith, himself, has an answer for this. In fact, he should include something in spec sheet that would give an idea how much DF lowering one should expect from the device.

Bob S.
edit:
P.S. (to PS and p s?) I see that Dougie got in here ahead of me with an answer that was much shorter and much more to the point. Touché.

[Citroen]

P.S. (to PS and p s?) I see that Dougie got in here ahead of me with an answer that was much shorter and much more to the point. Touché.

I forgot to say - put it back on afterwards. If I ever get my own ergo there are two things on the shopping list; 1. C-Breeze and 2. RowPro.

I'm almost tempted to tell the gym to buy eight C-Breezes and fit them permanently to their machines. (That would put paid to the meat-head gym monkeys who have to row on damper 10.)

[PaulH]

Yup, using the CBreeze does lower the drag for a given setting. Given that there's little reason to ever row on 10 anyway, that's a trade-off well worth making. My guess is that it makes maybe 1 damper setting's difference, perhaps a little less.

[iain]

...so was planning the following schedule five day schedule (I take the weekends as rest days):

1. Row 1 x 2k and run 4k
2. Row 2 x 3k and run 2k
3. Row 7k and cycle for 20mins
4. Run 6k and cycle for 15mins
5. Row 5k test

I would mix it up during the 4 days over the weeks to rotate long/short runs, rowing and cycling. I would then always do a 5k test on fridays to check my level of progress.

Does this sound sensible?

Congratulations on a great start. Dougie's optimism assumes a reasonable basic fitness and that you are of average height and under 55 or so. (Very approximate).

I would say that a 5k test every week sounds a lot. At first you will see improvements, but soon it will be tough to impove after only 3 rowing sessions. I would suggest that you either try different tests (e.g. 6k, 30') so that you are only retesting every few weeks.

As well as the distance, you should have an idea of intensity for each workout. Flat out 5 days a week will take its toll. I have been amazed at my fitness improvement over the last 3 months with alternating rows at 5-7S/500m slower than I could do the set distance at. This allows you to recover for the next day as well as providing a good aerobic workout. In particular, a flat out 2k is not to be recommended too often.

Look forward on finding out how you are progressing, why not post your PBs.

- Iain

[ErikLondon]

Cheers for the motivation guys.

I will post my times once I improve them a bit....!

Ian - to answer your question I'm 6ft, 32yrs and around 90kgs - always been quite heavy for my height due to years of rugby playing and never been too badly out of shape.

Dougie - checked the DF on the machine at my gym (a PM3) and set it to 115 which felt a nice level of resistance.

Tried a bit of interval training today. Did 2k, rest, 1k, rest, 2k. Was amazed at how much more difficult this was compared with rowing a straight 5k - definitely the way to go.

Will mix in some longer rows - build slowly in 1k intervals until I can do up to 10k.

I'm realistic about my targets and not looking to kill myself - just looking to get fit and I find rowing a great way to challenge myself and keep myself motivated.

Will let you know how I get on.