Ranger's training thread

[Nosmo]

At the 2009 Masters US Nationals, I see that a 48-year-old did 3:36 for 1K.

That's pretty good.

1:48 pace

I would guess that he had to rate up pretty high to do that.

37 spm?

That's 7.6 SPI

NO IT IS NOT! You have no idea what his SPI was. Actually you seem to have no idea what Power is.


BTW, my last single race I did in 3:40.3. 35-36 spm on the start (a bit low because of rough water), 32-33 for the body and 34-35 for the last 250 (flatter water there). It was also faster MM2x and MxM2x I did later in the day.
I don't have much of a chance of winning the nationals. That should tell you something about OTW numbers.

[ranger]

I am not talking about power.

I am talking about aerobic capacity--rating up.

Wait until your 2K on the erg is 6:10 rating 40 spm rather than 6:54 rating 30 spm.

These two are done with exactly the same power (11 SPI) but very different aerobic capacities.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!
You've been erging for how long and you still have no idea what power is?!
SPI is not power it is energy. There is a difference but you don't seem to care about learning what it is.

What's the calibration factor on your SpeedCoach?

He is not going to answer that question because he doesn't know and doesn't know how to find out. He probably doesn't even know what a calibration factor is.

I do, and have calibrated my speed coach with my Garmin GPS Navigator.

Does Mike know what a calibration factor is?

I would guess not, given that what he reports in terms of workouts has little to do with what he does in races.

Does Mike account for which direction he rows (down current, up current) on the Connecticut River?

I row on lakes. There is no current.

At the Blackfly, Mike rowed with an SPI of 6.2 (2:04.4 @ 28.5 spm).

But in his workouts, he claims an SPI of 7.7, and reports workouts with an SPI of 8, or even above.

So what's up?

Could you record one of your workouts with a Garmin Navigator and present the results here?

That would put some of thise _serious_ doubts to rest.

Why be a liar?

For sensational effect?

You might want to think again.

If Mike can really do a sustained 2:00 @ 24 spm at below AT, then, heck, all he has to do is rate 26, and he would be doing 1:57 for 5K/AT, almost ten seconds per 500m faster than what he does when he shows up for races.

I suspect that Mike will not do 1:57 for 5K, as his reported workouts suggest.

I suspect he will continue to do 2:07.

ranger

[mikvan52]

What's the calibration factor on your SpeedCoach ?

What's the calibration factor on your SpeedCoach?

ranger

Do you know what this is?
I assume you are using a NK timing product. Am I wrong?

See:
http://www.nkhome.com/rowing-paddling/speed-coach-xl/3/

Read about calibration:

Calibration Routine

To calibrate the SpeedCoach, row over a measured distance on still water (on flowing water, row both up and down stream and average the results shown on the display). Then, use the following formula to obtain the new calibration value:

(Old Cal Value) (True Distance)/Displayed Distance= New Cal Value

For example, if the known rowed distance is 1 mile, but the display shows 0.92, the calibration value would be: (1.00) (1.00)/0.92 = 1.086

Rich:
How about we make this a double blind study:

You calibrate yours. I've already calibrated mine.
Then, we can share the results. Don't forget to save your test data.

I'll bet yours is still set at 1.00.. which is wrong for the Fluid hull. A 1.00 calibration factor makes it appear that the boat is moving through the water faster than it actually is.
I suggest you do your homework and get this right if you want to report accurate times for your OTW pieces...

[mikvan52]

I am not talking about power.

I am talking about aerobic capacity--rating up.

Wait until your 2K on the erg is 6:10 rating 40 spm rather than 6:54 rating 30 spm.

These two are done with exactly the same power (11 SPI) but very different aerobic capacities.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!
You've been erging for how long and you still have no idea what power is?!
SPI is not power it is energy. There is a difference but you don't seem to care about learning what it is.

What's the calibration factor on your SpeedCoach?

He is not going to answer that question because he doesn't know and doesn't know how to find out. He probably doesn't even know what a calibration factor is.

I do, and have calibrated my speed coach with my Garmin GPS Navigator.

Does Mike know what a calibration factor is?

I would guess not, given that what he reports in terms of workouts has little to do with what he does in races.

Does Mike account for which direction he rows (down current, up current) on the Connecticut River?

I row on lakes. There is no current.

At the Blackfly, Mike rowed with an SPI of 6.2 (2:04.4 @ 28.5 spm).

But in his workouts, he claims an SPI of 7.7, and reports workouts with an SPI of 8, or even above.

So what's up?

Could you record one of your workouts with a Garmin Navigator and present the results here?

That would put some of thise _serious_ doubts to rest.

Why be a liar?

For sensational effect?

You might want to think again.

ranger

So: We now know you use a GPS. All well and good except for use in moving water.
I have calibrated my NK correctly for moving water.

To answer your question about the Black Fly.
Ever hear about headwind?
Ever hear about rowing to win a race?
Ever hear about steering to avoid traffic and other hazards?
These considerations have to be considered in actual race conditions.
Once you do you see that my training reports are comparable.
To suggest otherwise is laughable.
To claim that I am a liar shows what feeble lengths you'll go to to prop up your vision of your own rowing.

As for my times at nationals last year... You seem to be too lazy to look them up for me and instead focus on what a 48 year-old did... Odd. Your focus should be trying to beat your peers.

I have reported my times at US Nationals several times. I sculled "to win": In five 1ks in the single I have not lost.

On the issue of accuracy: You do not report any times w/distances for your workouts. I report what I believe to be accurate ones.
If I make an error in one of these assessments, I correct it... It's all in my blog.

Let's get back to your statements:
I don't know much about the Garmin. Will it calculate actual geographic distance covered in a straight line or circuitous routes?

[ranger]

I have calibrated my NK correctly for moving water.

Liar.

ranger

[mikvan52]

have calibrated my NK correctly for moving water.

Liar.

ranger

Cute of you, Rich... Insults won't work; timed pieces will. Races will even be better....

[ranger]

Ever hear about headwind?

Sure.

Just joshin'.

At the moment, you're a lot better than I am OTW.

I have paddled--tandem--in a roaring headwind--for eight hours--flat out--all day.

I am intimately familiar with headwinds.

I have a saying that my children know well:

"Life if a headwind on Lake Opeongo."

It takes all day to paddle Opeongo, the largest lake in Algonquin Park, Ontario, Canada.

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safa ... CBcQnwIwAQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Opeon ... 45.67N.png

I have done this many times in a roaring headwind, because the normal route is to paddle Opeongo, north to south, in the summer, from Happy Isle, to the store at the southern tip of the lake, often against prevailing southern winds.

Not an easy day.

But I am used to it--from two decades of suffering through it, starting at nine years old.

Now, it doesn't bother me at all.

How do you survive?

You just dig in on each stroke, ignoring how slow you are going, relative to your effort.

And 10,000 strokes and eight hours later, you are done.

While this suffering is going on, it helps to sing.



BTW, all of my children have also paddled Opeongo, north to south, many times.

That's what education (and parenting) is all about.

ranger

[ranger]

Insults won't work

Facts aren't insults, unless you have a fantastically overblown conception of your achievement.

Food for thought.

My comments just review the facts.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike---

You old foggie scullers are in for a surprise.



No matter how stylish you are, you can't win a rowing race if you are a broken down old man.

The two most important elements of boat speed are physical capacity and training.

Technique is a distant third.

ranger

[ranger]

I have calibrated my NK correctly for moving water.

Liar.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

If you have calibrated your speed coach correctly, you should do the Head of the Charles, 1:57 @ 27 spm (8 SPI), piece of cake.

That's 18:50.

You win hands down.

But if you are lying, you will do 20:20 for the Head of the Charles instead of 18:50.

So which is it?

I suppose we will find out in October.

Then we will find out whether you are a liar or not.

Good luck with it.

ranger

[mikvan52]

I am not desperate to see others fail as you are.

You have aptitude for fast sculling Rich. Did you know I felt that way?
It's only your approach that is faulty.
1: No coaching
2: A combative attitude
3. Poor training
4. A history of being unable to appreciate the advances others have made from which you might learn.

As for me, My goal is to row the HOCR at 2:00 pace which for the 4800 meter course (9.3 500s x 2.0 pace)= 18.6 minutes = 18:36....
I don't even know if I'll get in this year because of my having lost my seeding due to non-participation last year.

yesterday's REAL workout of 10 x 2:00 at sub 2:00/500m pace is encouraging. Buzz continues to help me immensely.

What's your plan... stay with the erg? hope that great erg scores naturally translate into great OTW times in a single?

If I don't race the Charles, I'll target another high profile head race. That a definite... not a maybe.
WIll you say the same for next year RIch? If you don't make it into the Charles will you definitely race elsewhere?
Why not prove the naysayers wrong and make a commitment to race? Just tell us where so some us can compete with
you...

I wish you your best possible performance at BIRC, since that's your major focus. All of here who watched you for years know what that means ... a 6:4x.x 2k erg. That is great but Roy's record will remain intact in the 6:38.x area.....

[mikvan52]

Mike--

If you have calibrated your speed coach correctly, you should do the Head of the Charles, 1:57 @ 27 spm (8 SPI), piece of cake.

That's 18:50.

You win hands down.

But if you are lying, you will do 20:20 for the Head of the Charles instead of 18:50.

So which is it?

I suppose we will find out in October.

Then we will find out whether you are a liar or not.

Good luck with it.

ranger

So you are really saying if I am able to do 10 x 500 (or 2') at 2:00 I should be able to do the Charles' 4800 meters w/o a break at 2:00 pace too....(?)

The answer is "No", Rich.

I am not there yet.
My form needs work.
My physical capabilities need to be developed properly.

Watch what I do at Sweeps and Sculls next weekend... to see what kind of boat speed I have at 1k.
See how I do at Nationals against the other 55-59 year olds.
Too bad your perfected erg/sculling stroke (one and the same, according to you) won't be out in public at these venues for others to see how you do beyond your "if i rate it up as i think i can" BS.

Piece of advice: The pace for rate formula you've come to expect form your erg expertise is not the same for the water.
IOW: You will never row a fast 1k OTW in a 1x at 37 spm... No fault of yours: You are 59 years old... w/o any racing experience on the water...

[Nosmo]

I am not talking about power.

I am talking about aerobic capacity--rating up.

Wait until your 2K on the erg is 6:10 rating 40 spm rather than 6:54 rating 30 spm.

These two are done with exactly the same power (11 SPI) but very different aerobic capacities.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!
You've been erging for how long and you still have no idea what power is?!
SPI is not power it is energy. There is a difference but you don't seem to care about learning what it is.

What's the calibration factor on your SpeedCoach?

He is not going to answer that question because he doesn't know and doesn't know how to find out. He probably doesn't even know what a calibration factor is.

I do, and have calibrated my speed coach with my Garmin GPS Navigator.

My mistake you proabably do know what a Calibration Factor is.
So what is the excuse for not reporting it?

At the Blackfly, Mike rowed with an SPI of 6.2 (2:04.4 @ 28.5 spm).

But in his workouts, he claims an SPI of 7.7, and reports workouts with an SPI of 8, or even above.

So what's up?

Obviously you still don't know what power is and why SPI OTW is in practice a meaningless figure.
Still can't answer simple questions, what is the Calibration Factor? If you would have had the guts to go row with
mike and do the Black Fly all this would be settled.

[ranger]

Still can't answer simple questions

So, what do you do for 1K OTW?

And at what rate?

ranger